J24 Hull - Epoxy Coating (or not?)

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Chrisnewcombe

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Hello,

Recently purchased a 1988 J-24 which has been lovingly dry-sailed (and hence gel-coat only) but now intend to moor throughout season in Portland Hrbr.

Would prefer not to antifoul but cannot commit to taking her out of the water every couple of weeks for a scrub-down, however, will be able to do this once a month and then in between clean via a combination of mask+snorkel and/or cleaning using a length of astro-turf or similar, slung under her ( /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif hope that makes sense!).

Some queries:
1/ Is it recommended to antifoul the keel and the inaccessable areas, leaving the remainder of the hull to be cleaned as above, or in your experience leave the keel for the monthly clean?
2/ Is it OK to put her in the water without first applying an epoxy coating to prevent osmotic ingress to the core? If not, then can anyone recommend the most suitable product?

I Appreciate that 'to antifoul or not' is a 'personal view' topic but any advice would be greatfully received.

Regards

Chris
 
Why do you not want to antifoul the hull, it is probably easier to do this once a year and then have a half year scrub off (unless you race a lot) than not antifoul at all.
 
Hi Ecosse, thanks for your reply.
The J24 is a race boat and hence I would prefer not to antifoul...I guess with that decision made (although I thought it might be useful to hear any contradicting views) then I am really distilling the question down to whether or not I should apply epoxy and if so what would be the recommended product to use?
Cheers
Chris
 
You won't be able to scrub her properly with just a mask and snorkel. Its hard enough using diving equipment.

If she has been dry sailed you could have a really dry hull. Would be a shame to loose that for the sake of £300 worth of paint (Epoxy and Antifoul). Why not antifoul her? because she is going racing? you will be suprised how fast those little barnacles will grow in the summer and that really will slow you down. We left the club rib in Portsmouth harbour for 4 weeks, had to use a piece of 4x4 wood to scrape her down. Horrible job worse than puting paint on.

Pete
 
Pete,
Thanks for the reply...as you can guess, I am new to this so any advice is much appreciated. Do you have any recommendations for the epoxy and antifoul products?
Chris
 
Strongly suggest that you epoxy with gelsheild first and then antifoul, if you dont get to it for couple of weeks mid summer it wont be a simple job to get the barnicles etc off. Dry sailing you can get away with for a couple of weeks but if its in the water all the time it will foul, literally no matter how often you scrub it without antifoul.
 
I race on the East Coast and I would recommend antifouling and regular scrubs. We found that if we did not scrub at least every three weeks the drop off in performance was dreadful. That will be worse if you do not antifoul. Some of our Dragons do not antifoul and they were scrubbing and polishing every week before a race. They dry sail now.
I would epoxy the boat for prudence really as the boat is old enough not to have the fancy gelcoats they use now. Then follow that up with a hard racing antifouling which you can burnish and then scrub to your heart's content.
 
"GelShield" epoxy is easy to apply with a small foam roller but you need plenty of spare roller heads as they dissolve after half an hours use.

.You need at least 5 coats I think .The tins are about £20 One tin will probably do one coat on a J24 .It comes in two colours grey and green use alternate colours so you know you havent missed any.

Re antifoul if you use hard racing stuff and keep it smooth you wont lose any performance.
 
A J24 is only really used for racing. Therefore, I wouldn't epoxy the bottom - the quality of the surface will make a big difference in one make sailing. If you can't dry sail then you need hard antifouling and you need to rub it down to a mirror smooth finish. You will still need to scrub her every few weeks and also before major races.

If you don't do that you won't be competetive and the only reason for buying a j24 is to compete.
 
If you are having to moor her then you have no option but to antifoul. But if you use something like VC it can be burnished to give as good if not better finish than the original. It can also be scrubbed at regular intervals.

As far as epoxy coating then go for one of the better solvent free ones such as West Then it is worth doing otherwise just leave it.

Iain
 
[ QUOTE ]
"GelShield" epoxy is easy to apply with a small foam roller but you need plenty of spare roller heads as they dissolve after half an hours use.

[/ QUOTE ] Found the same with antifoul until I used one designed for varnish, orange long haired from B&Q i think. Didn't break up after the normal 20 minutes. Haven't used VC Tar but did get a suprisingly good surface with VC Offshore. Will antifouling affect the speed on a J24, don't know but it didn't make a jot of difference on my rib unlike polishing the stainless prop to a mirror finish which promptly cost us 2 knots /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Portland harbour has a good flow of water and therefore nutrients from the fleet just what baby barnacles are looking for. Did you know they tried to grow Oysters in the harbour at one point. Divers still occasionally find them.

Pete
 
Thanks Pete et al,

Re: Oysters.... there is indeed an oyster bed farm in the Fleet between the harbour and chesil beach....can be sampled in the excellent Crab House restaurant which overlooks the oyster beds and, I believe, own and manage the beds.

Trying to be decisive; it sounds like the concensus is to apply VC Tar 2 plus VC 17M Extra a/f. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Cheers all /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Chris
 
Don't buy VC 17M. It is utterly useless as an antifoul; more like a fertilizer paint. It is tricky to apply and costs a fortune to boot.

Sure it has a nice finish, but the paint comes off when wiped with a cloth. Save your money and use something else.
 
Can't help with the paint other than to suggest you use a hard paint, and make sure the finish is as smooth as possible before the boat goes back in the water.

As for cleaning between lifts, a piece of astroturf works well, but you need to be diligent to make sure you clean as much of the hull as possible. We used to use a strip about 1 foot wide and maybe 6-10 feet long. At each end the turf was wound around a wooden batten or rod about 1 inch square / diameter. Ropes attached to either end of the batten, then joined together in a Y shape. You need two people.

We also used a scrub brush to scrube the keel, rudder, and hull beside the keel. The scrub brush was mounted on a long (10 feet plus) length of large diameter (3 inch?) plastic plumbing. There were a couple of 45 degree elbow joints in the last 3-4 feet to get around the turn of the bilge. To make the job easier, mount a foam float opposite the scrub brush. It pushes the brush into the hull for you.

Scrub every time you go out. Every time.

Good luck.
 
/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif Michael, so what do you recommend instead of VC 17M?

Strange that some owners on this thread have had good results with VC 17M and yourself not... perhaps too thin an application? Did you contact International to discuss the failure of the product, what did they say?

Chris
 
[ QUOTE ]
A J24 is only really used for racing. Therefore, I wouldn't epoxy the bottom -

[/ QUOTE ]

Dont quite follow your logic there. You can sand the epoxy as smooth as you like prior to antifouling with hard racing which can also be wet and dried smooth. Seems a waste not to protect it now while its very dry.
 
I used 17m on a prepared surface as per the manufacturer's instructions. The paint is very "thin", like water, if it were not for the very powerful solvents. The recommended application was by roller. The second coat, was nigh impossible to apply as the solvent would dissolve the first coat. Eventually, after much bad language the hull was coated to my satisfaction.

Sure, there was a super baby's bum smooth finish. My berth was in a pretty strong tideway, Burseldon just before the bridge, and the boat was being used every weekend.

After a mere three months I noticed a considerable drop in performance and dried her out for a scrub. The growth on the bottom was quite astonishing. Anemones as well as barnacles, slime, weed assorted little wrigglers as well. A complete ecosystem.

In the process of evicting the tenants the paint came off too. A gentle sponge, the sort that SWMBO uses for her face would take the paint off. The only consolation being the hull was free of the dreadful stuff and I could apply a hard burnishable coating without incompatability problems.

I took the matter up with International, but they couldn't care a damn and all they would say is that I must have applied it incorrectly. A year or so later I saw another boat applying 17M with as much difficulty as I had. I also saw the boat in question a year later, with a fine crop of marine flora and fauna.

Is it worth trying to find somewhere to dry sail your J24? Over by Portland Port prehaps? Or isn't there a sheerlegs by Weymouth Sailing Club?

Sorry about waffling on!
 
[ QUOTE ]
Sorry about waffling on!

[/ QUOTE ]

Not at all...for someone new to this subject, then all information and opions are much appreciated.

That's quite an [alleged /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif] indictment about International's committment to their products and customer service.

The new Sailing Academy at Portland has a lift and scrub facilities but I live an hour away from Portland and at c£60 a lift every fortnight, plus the time, and coupled with the balance of advice received, then I don't feel I have much choice but to go the a/f route.

I have the name of a chap who will spray the hull with epoxy + a/f, so will explore that route and let you know how it goes.

Thanks for your help.

Chris
 
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