It's wood, Jim, but not as I know it.....

Topcat47

Topcat47

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It\'s wood, Jim, but not as I know it.....

I popped into my local timber merchants for some mahogany to cap a piece of Marine ply, I'd cut and was laughed at (well almost).

The "Hard" woods on offer were:- Albizia, Durian and Croatian white oak.

I "googled" the timbers and only got a response for the Durian, and even that was far more interested in the propeties of the fruit than the timber. I did eventually find it to be NOT reccomended for external use.....

The Albizia entry was just as helpful and nothing came up for croation white oak.

I posted a note in reader to reader earlier, but I suddenly thought......this might be a better forum to get some sane advice. Bearing in mind the Teak and "propper mahogany" is either unobtainable or frighteningly expensive...what of the current crop of cheaper "sustainable" hardwoods would be good for boat joinery (inside and out)?
 
Re: It\'s wood, Jim, but not as I know it.....

If its internal joinery and you want a mahogany then a Meranti could be suitable. I would always try and look at the pieces before you buy and if possible and the timber merchant will let you, select the bits you want yourself. If its for external I would use Iroko, its relatively easy to work and durable. In my experience the extra cost of it is small compared to the labour of the work that will be involved.
 
Re: It\'s wood, Jim, but not as I know it.....

Trade names. They are so annoying. Your Croatian White Oak could be sessile (q. petraea,) q. robur or any one of a few other species that I am not familiar with. However as a general rule, there are two trade types of oak timber (as opposed to the trees, there are literally dozens of spp) white and red oak. Even Common or English Oak (q robur) is sold as a white oak though it is in fact a pale tan that darkens with age.


The white oaks have good durability, are resistant, reasonably workable, capable of a good finish and are moderately prone to warp with changes in humidity. The red oaks are much less durable and less resistant, but easy to work, take an excellent finish and are more stable. In other words I think you'd be fine with the Croatian stuff.

As for the other two you mentioned, I agree with you. In general, I prefer to use hardwood from a known sustainable source--these weird and wonderful tropical hardwoods, well, I have no idea what they are or how they're produced.


The only place you'll get real mahogany now is from reclaimed timber. "Real" mahoganies, Swietana spp, have been on CITES for many years now and any that may still be available is keenly sought by furniture and instrument makers. Always worth checking the local architectural reclamation yards, since mahogany was widely used in building up till the seventies and beyond.
 
Re: It\'s wood, Jim, but not as I know it.....

I disagree on the Meranti recommendation. It's a difficult wood to work cleanly, and the dust is less "clean" than, say ash, or deal.
 
Re: It\'s wood, Jim, but not as I know it.....

You could try Utile or Sapele, moderately durable, available and reasonably priced! They’re red-ish African hardwoods, which are often passed off as mahogany in the building trade.

If your not happy chopping up chunks of rain forest, or can’t quite stomach the £170 per cube, I was quoted for Brazilian Mahogany a reclamation yards probably is your best bet!
 
Re: It\'s wood, Jim, but not as I know it.....

I recently used some Utile for coamings and edgings in my galley. It looks very like the Brazilian Mahogany I couldn't afford and was a lot cheaper. It is easy to work. I bought it from Robbins Timber Ltd, Bristol but I expect there are suppliers near you.

If you want a sample I can send a bit, but you'll have to wait until I can drag myself from my sick-bed to the garage to cut a piece off and post it. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
 
Re: It\'s wood, Jim, but not as I know it.....

I acquired some offcuts of Meranti or Philippine Mahogany last year and have used some for internal joinery, shelves and fiddles mostly. It's definitely not in the same class as proper Mahogany but looks OK and seems fairly robust.
 
Re: It\'s wood, Jim, but not as I know it.....

I thought the supply of Brazil Mahog had finally dried up, but it has been on and off for years. It's gorgeous stuff, but when you know the damage they do getting it....

I still have a small amount left of two oak logs I bought sawn into 1" and 2" boards nearly 20 years ago, from a sawmill in the Borders, which is very nice stuff. I have since then bought I would reckon 6 or so cubic metres from a sawmill in France. It's lovely stuff, and pretty well priced last time I bought any, in 2003-- just about out of that now, need to get some more.

There's plenty good oak in France, as well as other hardwoods, it's all properly managed and sustainably produced, and the stuff I've had has been good.

Check around the sawmills if you want good timber for a decent price. Just remember to paint the cut ends and stick it properly.
 
Re: It\'s wood, Jim, but not as I know it.....

[ QUOTE ]
Just remember to paint the cut ends ..[ QUOTE ]


That leads me on to a question about the colour codes used by timber yards, but as TC47 gets rather cross if people hijack his threads I'd better start a new one /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
Re: It\'s wood, Jim, but not as I know it.....

Last time i made some Iroko doors Iroko was cheaper than Oak . This may have changed as the timber prices change like the wind .
I didnt think it was actually possible to buy illegally logged timber in this country , its not worth anyones while to bother with it .
 
Re: It\'s wood, Jim, but not as I know it.....

I have found that the guide on the Robbins Timber website is useful for suitability for purpose.
 
Re: It\'s wood, Jim, but not as I know it.....

I suspect you're talking price ex-timber merchant. If you check the oak prices ex-sawmill for comparison I think you'll notice a difference. Most sawmills will need you to be taking more than a couple of 4x2 sticks, mark you.

The Brazil Mahog in the trade is not illegally logged; Brazil, under the CITES rules, is able to allow a certain amount of felling licences. This practise has been protested by several conservation groups, but the argument is that if land is being cleared anyway, it makes no sense to burn valuable timber rather than sell it. Whether this procedure is being abused I would leave to you to examine the available information and form your own opinion. I avoid tropical hardwoods as much as
I can, 's just me.
 
Re: It\'s wood, Jim, but not as I know it.....

It might seem inconsistent but I back all measures to prevent non-sustainable forestry.
Some of the circumventions of CITES, such as UK imports of Indonesian furniture made from illegally felled and smuggled Laotian teak, are a scandal.
I am not too happy with the idea that if mahog is felled to clear land in Brazil to make way for burger cows then that's ok.
If we had paid more attention to the indiscriminate clearing of rainforest and temperate woodland in decades past I might now be able to buy a decent bit of mahogany or spar-length Douglas for my elderly boat.
 
Re: It\'s wood, Jim, but not as I know it.....

I lived in France for a long time and if there is a lesson in How It Should Be Done for sustainable forestry management, the French teach it.

It remains to be seen whether their system, evolved over centuries, will survive the changes currently happening in French rural life, but I very much hope so.
 
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