Italian 2 pin sockets

[Whitelighter]

So it turns out Italian 2 pin sockets are slightly narrower than European 2 pin sockets,

While I'm in the process of swapping the sockets and switches in Seralia, does anyone know if I can buy Italian to uk adaptions? There is one Italian to eu adapt or on board so a few more of those will do.

Sticking Italian travel adapt or into google just yields standard eu ones

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

So it turns out Italian 2 pin sockets are slightly narrower than European 2 pin sockets,

While I'm in the process of swapping the sockets and switches in Seralia, does anyone know if I can buy Italian to uk adaptions? There is one Italian to eu adapt or on board so a few more of those will do.

Sticking Italian travel adapt or into google just yields standard eu ones

http://www.amazon.co.uk/US-TRONIC-ADV-12-ADAPTOR-UK-ITALY/dp/B002YKNTUM

 

[Whitelighter]

Ta.

Only thing is I'm pretty sure mine are still 2 pin, not three...

 

[MapisM]

Only thing is I'm pretty sure mine are still 2 pin, not three...

Naah, I don't think so. The 3 pins one that jtb posted has been IT standard for more than I can remember.
2 pins only sockets don't have ground connection, and you can sometimes find them in a few very specific applications, like in bathrooms for electric razors.
I'd be surprised if Ferretti used 2 pins for all onboard AC sockets, also back in the days of your boat. My '96 vintage boat has 3 pins everywhere.
Anyway, aside from the 2 vs. 3 pins thing, if you know the model/line of your sockets (and if not, a pic could help), it is rather likely that replacements are still available.
Which means that you could swap them for either UK or Schuko sockets, hence not needing any adaptor.
And being that ordinary domestic stuff (as opposed to boat-specific spares), their cost is probably just a few Eur/module.
The only caveat is that wherever you want to fit a UK or Schuko socket, you must have 2 modules available - i.e. twice the space required by the IT socket.

 

[Portofino]

We have these triple sockets .This ones outside in the cockpit with a weatherproof cover for illustration -inside are the same ,but without the cover .
We also have adaptors Italian to french and Italian to Uk
Strangely a kettle we deliberatly bought in Italy did not fit -needs an adaptor .
it's all a mystery -maybe MapishM can enlighten the forum ?

 

[Bandit]

I am not an electrician but you need to check if the socket has an earth?

I understand a lot of European equipment is not earthed but the switch on the equipment disconnects both pos & neg whereas uk equipment only disconnects on one side electrically but has a neg.

 

[Whitelighter]

I am not an electrician but you need to check if the socket has an earth?

I understand a lot of European equipment is not earthed but the switch on the equipment disconnects both pos & neg whereas uk equipment only disconnects on one side electrically but has a neg.

Interesting point - but how does it work with an adaption then??

 

[Portofino]

I took one apart in the crew cabin to fix it -turned out a loose wire .
It had a red , black and earth -stripey yellow /green .-so earthed

Only misshap - was when I used a UK hair dryer ( wife's ) to remove IT reg decals via adaptor on shore power .
Thing lasted 30 secs eliment glowed red and set on fire .
Replacement French one works fine With a It to Fr adaptor .

 

[BartW]

as has been said the 3pin in a row sockets are a typical Italian format, not compatible with anything else,
and be carefull, on some older models, the pin width between the outer pins is different from the with of the 2 pin version of the Shuko format
well at least, in my boat I found the two versions mixed !, they have sockets that can handle both versions.

I have changed all the sockets in the boat to Shuko, and despite the "Brexit thread " ;-) I believe that would be the best thing for you to do.
I usually buy new 230V appliences locally: (ao hair dryer, Klock radios, microwave, fridge, TV, extension leads, ... )
so in the med they will mostly be available with shuko sockets,
than have a few extra male and female schuko plugs onboard, and you can modify the old Itall stuff, or occasional UK stuff, (or have adapters onboard)

 

[MapisM]

it's all a mystery -maybe MapishM can enlighten the forum ?

It isn't such a mistery actually, but I can see why some confusion can arise.
I'll try to clarify, also with respect to what BartW said of his old BA sockets.
Bear with me, because the explanation is somewhat tricky, and as Pascal said, I don't have time to write a short one.

The IT standard has always been the 3 pins aligned, with GND in the middle.
But we used to have two different sizes, one designed to handle up to 10A, and a slightly larger one for up to 16A.
In the two pics below, the sockets corresponding to the 10A and the 16A plugs (mind, only the white ones, I'll come to the black 16A plug later) are those marked as P10 and P11 respectively.
But over time, it became obvious the convenience of a 16A socket capable to accept also 10A plugs.
The result was the P17/11 socket (called "multipasso" in IT), that can accept both the 10A and the 16A plugs.
From what I can see in your pic, this is the type of sockets Itama installed.
And as far as IT standards are concerned, this is the end of the story.

But after Shuko became EU standard (hence having many appliances sold, also in IT, with the Shuko plug), the plot thickened.
In fact, Shuko plug (the black 16A in previous pic, with its corresponding P30 socket) has the same pins distance as the IT 10A, but their diameter is a bit larger - the same of the IT 16A.
Therefore, while at first sight you might think that a 16A Shuko plug can fit a P10 IT socket, it actually can't, because of the larger pins diameter.
Which is logical anyway, because not only you don't want to connect something that can draw up to 16 amps to a line+socket sized for 10, but even if you could, the GND would still have no connection.
Actually, you can force shuko plugs into some "softly built" P10 or P11/17 sockets, if you push them hard and you don't mind risking to break them.
But what you can get is a non-grounded connection at best, and an electric shock at worst... :ambivalence:

Then again, the need for handling different stuff with the same socket (as the P17/11 socket in your Itama could do with both the 10A and 16A IT plugs) became even higher after the Shuko introduction.
This brought to the P40 socket in above pic, which can accept:
- Shuko plugs, because the pin diameter is sized accordingly and it grants a proper GND connection (through the side contacts);
- 10A IT plugs, even if the pins are a bit smaller than their corresponding holes, again with a proper GND connection (through the center pin). The only drawback with 10A plugs used in P40 sockets is that mechanically the connection is a bit loose. Just for the records, the IT 10A plug can also fit the P30 Shuko socket - at least the one as in the above pic, with the center GND connection. In fact, original German Shuko sockets were designed to take only Shuko plugs, and didn't have the center hole replicating the side GND contacts.
- 16A IT plug, similarly to what was already allowed by P17/11 sockets.

Of course, before replacing old P10 sockets with any newer "multi" socket, it's important to check that the line behind it is sized to handle 16A, for very obvious reasons.
And also when using adaptors, a bit of common sense is required. But this is true regardless of plugs/sockets standards - same as when using multiple plugs extensions...

 

[Portofino]

Thx MapishM ,
"mystery " solved .
I thought the convention changed when arriving at the Apreamare ship yard under Versuvius with new kettle bought in a Naples supermarket , dam thing would not plug in .
Never mind we had to miss a cup of tea and drink Chianti and Perroni
As a safety note my guardiene has got an electrician to make up some -extension / adaptors for the winter oil heaters .
They have 16A males and shuko females .
He,s used to IT boat sockets , and his wife is Italian - handy for translating the boat hand book
So we plug our Fr shuko stuff through these now .Vacuum , power drill etc

 

[BartW]

This brought to the P40 socket in above pic,

well lets call that the Italian version of Shuko, being partially compatible with the old Italian format,
I still have one of these in the ER, never checked / noticed if there is a hole for the center earth pin,

to make things even more complex, In Belgium we have another variation on the same theme,
our female sockets have a male earth pin out of center,

thats why you find lots of equipment in central europe has a shuko plug with that extra hole

 

[davids0865]

well lets call that the Italian version of Shuko, being partially compatible with the old Italian format,
I still have one of these in the ER, never checked / noticed if there is a hole for the center earth pin,

to make things even more complex, In Belgium we have another variation on the same theme,
our female sockets have a male earth pin out of center,

thats why you find lots of equipment in central europe has a shuko plug with that extra hole

Complicated innit, the above is also the French standard, while Spanish plugs are Shuko.

Also for Bandit, the european standard is that at a domestic consumer unit both pos and neg are disconnected when the trip goes out which is why the plugs do not need to be fused, but all except double insulated require a ground which HAS to be provided at all sockets.

 

[prv]

Also for Bandit, the european standard is that at a domestic consumer unit both pos and neg are disconnected when the trip goes out which is why the plugs do not need to be fused

I can't see why that would have anything to do with fusing - what it does mean is that you don't need to rigorously distinguish between live and neutral, hence two-pin plugs that can be connected either way round, and sometimes (more in the past) marina supplies that looked "backwards" to British boats, because the sparkies weren't used to having to care.

The reason UK plugs need a fuse is because our house circuits are rated at 32 amps, but you don't want all the appliance cords to have to be 2.5mm² to carry that current in the event of a fault. So you rate the appliances lower, and have a fuse at the point where they branch off from the main circuit (ie the plug). I don't know what size breakers are normal for continental house circuits, but I understand that they tend to have more of them (our design was trying to economise on copper in the 1940s) each rated at a lower value.

Pete

 

[rubberduck]

We had same problem on our Absolute, turned out some euro adapters are different to others. From memory Waitrose were no good but B&Q were.

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

British flagged boat, should have proper British sockets, harumph, would save all this EU compatibility nonsense...

 

[rubberduck]

British flagged boat, should have proper British sockets, harumph, would save all this EU compatibility nonsense...

As a girlfriend once said on returning from a holiday, Italians do it better! Little did I know she was being serious. Essex girl

 

[MapisM]

Naah. Strikes me as a connoisseur dame, rather than an Essex girl....

 

[Portofino]

British flagged boat, should have proper British sockets, harumph, would save all this EU compatibility nonsense...

Maybe that's the clincher ---- In the forthcoming EU referendum ?

---- out stay as we are plug /socket wise
In ---- expect Shuko any time soon

Never mind all this child benefit and imigration nonsense I want to here politicians debating "shuko "

 

[rubberduck]

Naah. Strikes me as a connoisseur dame, rather than an Essex girl....