it wont point to wind ????

mtb

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I have a matilda 6m
on saterday while trying to sail in very light wind another yacht passed me, thing is I checked his sail arrangement and basically set mine the same.
thing is the only way I could get near his speed was to head off the wind he was on a bearing of 120 while I lost headway if I got any where near that heading
the matilda is a bilge keeler 8ft beam around 2ft draft ish including the keels
I dont have ballast internal I dont know if the keels are full of ballast, I've read their sposed to have 350lb
I had a genoe and main set to match the other yacht.

Also it tends to side slip as apposed to going forwards, yes I understand it's shallow draft but seems an awful lot

Any one had the same problem ?

cheers
Mick
 

sarabande

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What's the loading like on the tiller ? Does the bow tend to point up to towards the wind, or to run away from it ?

My first suspicion is the mast rake, then the condition of your wetted surface area.
 

Lakesailor

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Can of worms.

I had a heavily built and sound bilge keeler which was a good sea boat, but certainly not a greyhoud when it came to sailing close-hauled or downwind. It would go well on a broad reach though.
This is the general trend for bilge keelers although (as others will be along to tell you) some are much better designed and nearly as good as the fin keel version of the same yachts. (Hunter always seems to be viewed like that)

The fact that you both had two sails up and were sheeted in doesn't begin to address the performance of each rig.

I changed to a lightweight fin-keeled yacht which was much quicker on the water. But it wasn't the same sort of boat by any stretch of the imagination so comparisons of performance don't really hold up.
In fact I was talking to the guy who has most recently bought my bilge-keeler and had to admit that whilst it wasn't anything like as fleet as the fin-keeler, it was an easier sail and downwind sailed itself, whereas the fin-keeled boat had to be watched continuously or it would gybe on you.
Also I found the old tub to have a nicer cockpit, which means a lot as that's where you do the work from.
 

jimi

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the othe yacht may have had a different rig tension , sheeting angles, keel config, sails etc etc

So you set your sails for your own rig and don't over pinch, often better sailing faster and freer rather than over pinching up. The fact yo vere makin so muck leeway indicates perhaps oversheeted .. need to ease sheets sail freeish until boat speed gets up then harden up course and sheets. Bit of engine also helps as well partic if you can kep it hidden from the "opposition"
 

Twister_Ken

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The reason is impossible to see, unless you're a fish. It's down to the underwater configuration of the other boat. If she has deep fin keel, optimised hydrodynamically, you are never going to get anywhere near her upwind heading with a two foot draft bilge keeler. It's like asking why a road car won't go around corners as fast as a race car. Different beasts.
 

cameronke

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How was your forestay tension?

Was there much sag in the luff?

(I also seem to have your problem, everyone seems to be able to point higher and faster than me /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Cameron
 

jimi

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Said very light winds .. so not sure whether very tight or very loose. depends on exactly how very light and of course state of the sails
 

jamesjermain

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Before you despair of your own boat's sailing ability or even your capabilities as a yachtsman, how big was the other boat and what sort was she?

You can't be expected to keep up with a bigger, more racy design however well you set your sails. The speed difference between a naturally slow boat and a quick one will be even more noticeable in light winds.

The Matilda is a good, steady family cruiser. Don't try to push her too hard. Sail a little free on an easy sheet to get the best out of her.
 

mtb

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yes the other thing was posh but the amount of difference is my problem
the hull on mine is clean fresh anti foul and smooth, I cant be sure re rake of mast but I set the tensions so that it had equal ish tension.

The rudder works fine but it does tend to go off course very easily not that I'm going to introduce some sort of tension in the pintles as I dont think thats a good idea.

as for luff umm lol well the shape seemed quite good to me I kept it as close to wind with out the sails flogging, does that make sence ?

I must state so far I've sailed for oh about 8 hours ish
if I'm not trying to set a decent course it goes quite happily at an average of 4 to 5 best was 5.7 knots.
No good what so ever in light breezes it just tends to slip side ways with out making head way
so far your helpful hints have got me thinking but hey all possible ideas welcome

cheers
Mick
 

Danny Jo

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[ QUOTE ]
Sail a little free on an easy sheet to get the best out of her.

[/ QUOTE ] Yes, and to understand why, think of your keel like an aeroplane's wing. Just as a plane will drop like a stone unless there's a lot of air moving over the wing, so a boat will slip downwind (called making leeway) unless there's a lot of water moving over the keel. Get the boat moving just off the wind, then try easing up closer to the wind, but bear away again as soon as the speed starts dropping.
 

Sans Bateau

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[ QUOTE ]
yes the other thing was posh but the amount of difference is my problem

[/ QUOTE ]

If the other boat was something like, say, a Jeaneux 2000 or a Beneteau first 21 there is no way you will get anywhere near as close as they can sail to the wind. Any idea exaclty what sort of boat it was?
 

Superflid

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[ QUOTE ]

If the other boat was something like, say, a Jeaneux 2000 or a Beneteau first 21 there is no way you will get anywhere near as close as they can sail to the wind.

[/ QUOTE ]

You could always scrap the rig and fit a sprit rig (Thames barge type), even a gaff rig would be an improvement.......

http://cruisenews.net/images/FastestRig1.jpg

http://cruisenews.net/images/FastestRig2.jpg

http://cruisenews.net/images/FastestRig3.jpg

Wouldn't be fashionable though. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 

graham

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If your getting 4 to 5 knots thats pretty good for a cruising type boat. Its pointless comparing your performance to different designs.The Matilda was never designed to be a racer.

You can motorsail to improve windward performance,try it with only about 1/4 throttle,you will be surprised at how much you gain for very little fuel.

Dont try to point closer than 45° to the wind or your speed will drop and you will slide sideways (Leeway) .
 

douglas_family

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Other boats if dissimilar provide no help in undrstanding how well your getting your own boat to perform!

If you join in some club racing with the aplication of handicap you'll get a bit of an idea but still conditions will always have an influence on my dads 36 year old boat i usualy know if i'll have a chance of winning the club race or do well not to come last before i start!!!

Once you know your boat and how it performs in different conditions satisfaction can be gained from getting the best you can in any given conditions even if you cant compete with others.

sailing in light winds requires much more skill and practice than is required in moderate to strong winds. (it can be very frustrating, but eventually satisfying)
 

Searush

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Freestyle has probably hit the spot. In light winds, you will get the best out of any boat by getting her going slowly on a beam reach. Then SLOWLY, as you build up a little speed, work into the wind, tightening the sails as you benefit from an increase in the apparent wind. Provided the sea is calm you will get a good increase in speed from this technique, especially with a light, easily driven hull. Any waves will seriously reduce the benefit of this sort of thing.

The Matilda will be nowhere near as fast or close winded as a modern cruiser/racer, but, with care, you will annoy the heck out of the feeble sailors, whatever boat they have!
 
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