Is there such a thing as a cheap radar?

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rosipeter

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I'm trying to convince hubby that a radar would be a sensible addition to our boat if we decide to head for the Azores next year. However as we are what can only be described as poor, I was wondering if anyone could recommend a low-cost radar for our 32ft boat? Do they ever come up second hand? and if so what should we expect to pay?
Any help gratefully received.
 
The problem is that radar sets have improved dramatically with the advent of daylight viewable screens and other enhancements that there is just no comparison between the old technology and new. If you see a second hand set make sure that its modern technology therefore. I have a Raymarine SL70Plus which I can thoroughly recommend, and you may see second hand as they are not compatible with the newer C range Raymarine stuff. There are others of course but as a new one will cost in the region of £1500 with the cheapest mono at about half this price you should look to pay in my opinion at lest £500 for a second hand colour one and don't think you would be very satisfied with mono.
 
we have made the azores trip twice[2006 and 2007].you dont see many ships.however on the first trip when in fog 500miles from anywhere the radar alarm sounded.a ship that we never saw was on a collision course and 5nm off.he was surprised when we called on vhf[lucky he had his on] and responded by changing his course.of course he may have seen us on his radar changed course and we would never have known about it-but?
i would advise radar and pay the extra for something reliable.ability to set guard zones essential.we have marpa[this needs fast electrocompass] and find this very useful.
radar is very power hungry so the ability to charge batteries essential.towed charger prob most efficient.trouble is the costs add up.
when short handed[we sail two handed ]radar is equivalent to an extra crew
 
I have a fair amount of experience (and qualifications) with RADAR and I have to strongly disagree with the sentiment that the mono isn't up to scratch. If you have a limited budget then I would steer clear of fancy all singing and dancing colour set and go for a good set like a Furuno (model dependant on budget). There are all sorts of inventive ways to make shades and anti glare add-ons from disused charts etc.
 
Cheap is a relative description, and is meaningless unless you provide some parameters. What is cheap to Sir Paul McCartney would be expensive to ordinary mortals.

IMHO the Furono 1623 is well worth the investment. Not too power hungry, good reputation for reliability, and (relatively) cheap. You should be able to source a new set for under £1k.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I have a fair amount of experience (and qualifications) with RADAR and I have to strongly disagree with the sentiment that the mono isn't up to scratch. If you have a limited budget then I would steer clear of fancy all singing and dancing colour set and go for a good set like a Furuno (model dependant on budget). There are all sorts of inventive ways to make shades and anti glare add-ons from disused charts etc.

[/ QUOTE ]I agree. Our old Raytheon mono is outstanding. I am not sure why people rave on about their colour displays as you seem to have to spend a LOT of money to get the fancy overlays etc that are available. But who I am I to speak - we don't even run a plotter - just a GPS and paper charts...

For what its worth, my feeling is that if you are in fog almost ANY radar is better than no radar. JRC used to be the best of the budget sets.

Be careful about reliability and installation buying second hand, but you might get lucky. There are people with more money than sense who HAVE to have the latest thing, and might be selling off last years model at a good price.

Beamwidth of the antenna is one the biggest limiting factors and in this regard, size of radome is a dominant factor. ie If you want a narrow beamwidth (for more accurate defintion) then bigger is better.

However I refer you to para 2 above. In a fog any radar is better than none.

(By the way - learn the IRPCS under radar - they are different!)
 
My first experience with Radar was the Basic Furuno set on board my boat when I bought her .
It does what it says on the box.
I can set up Guard zones if required.
The best thing about this basic setup is that it does not need a degree in marine electronics to see if there is a target on the screen.
As I said on previous posts we use the radar in good visibility to practice target spotting so that when we do go on a night sail or run into fog we can understand what we are seeing and know how to change the range easily so that we can "see" ships at over 8miles or possibly 16 but can also see buoys and lobster pot markers at one quarter of a mile.
The basic screen is not cluttered with overlay charts,GRIB weather files,AIS data or even video games it only shows what we need to see and be aware of.
AIS is not the answer to our protection as it is only required on vessels over 300 ton . fishing boats small boats Goverment vessls etc will not be using it so what is the piont of having kit that will only tell you about a percentage of the potential obstacles.
 
Thats the one has hardly changed in TEN years.
You could probably even get a discount on the discounted price at Excel.
 
We saw virtually no traffic on an eight day passage from the Azores to Camarinas in August, but did see a lot in Biscay and the Western Approaches on the way back from Spain.

We are hoping to head South again at the end of this season or the year after, but would not do it again without some sort of radar - poor vis in Biscay and thick fog down the Portuguese coast were more frightening than 40 knot winds or 5m swell.

We are also poor though and our boat is smaller than yours (27ft) with all that entails for mounting a radar, so we will almost certainly go for an AIS set instead, which is eminently affordable and very much better than nothing - although some forumites will disagree with me.

The Azores is a good place for poor yachties - enjoy!

- W
 
Actually I agree that any aid is better than nothing and was brought up on raster screen radars myself. If you have it below in a position where you can see it in bright sunlight and it doesn't get wet its fine and better than nothing. The first sunlight viewable totally waterproof cockpit mounted colour radar I ever had however is the one I have now. It is so much easier to read even in direct sunlight, has so many functions not previously available, and is just so much better than the dim old things I had before that it's just no comparison, apart from the fact that the power consumption of a raster screen is horiffic on a little sailboat. The advent of LCD screens brought down the power consumption but degraded the picture and pixellated everything. Then they improved the resolution and made things far better so these monos like the Furuno M1623 which you can buy now for about £750 were a great improvement. Thats why I mentioned them. But anyone who has experienced the difference between this and the 1724 colour set would tell you its not a gimmick. They are just so much better that my advice still stands. Buy a modern colour set if you can afford it. If you can't, well you have to take hobsons choice don't you and anything is better than nothing.
 
I too have a Furuno 1623 and find it very good. Buying new also brings a manufacturers guarantee. The equipment can be diy installed, but don't forget to budget for a radome mount (possibly £100 +) and it really needs the mast to be down ( extra cost? ) if that's where you are going to mount it.
 
I take your point and look forward to seeing/using one of the modern colour displays at some time. Our Radar is at the chart table and we have a screen shroud for bright light viewing, but very rarely need to use it.

(The bright light viewing shroud usually sits in the locker next to the Radar. Its main use is for storing all the covers off the ST60 instruments as they just fit neatly inside it.)
 
Even cheaper than that...

[ QUOTE ]
£739.95 Inc VAT from these people

[/ QUOTE ]The cheapest UK online price I've seen for the Furuno 1623 is £721.45 from G Comm. With all radar offers, it's vital to check that the price includes the scanner cable (usually 10 or 15 metres). Some retailers are still offering the old JRC1000 at around £675, but for a few quid more the Furuno is so much better value.
 
Re: Even cheaper than that...

I believe that is totally true. As I understand it the resolution of the screen is better and although it's not sunlight viewable it is certainly daylight viewable and while its a small (6 inch) screen, will certainly do the job. I think what we are seeing is that as technology progresses there are "step changes" every now and again. Less than 10 years ago the cheap LCD screens could not offer the resolution of raster screens and had to be viewed from dead ahead or the image dissapeared. Then they progressed to overcome these difficulties and produced something that was a leap forward and JRC was in the lead for a while. You didn't need to be directly ahead anymore and the image resolution was better. Then came extra brightness and resolution and colour. The 1623 gives this extra resolution but not colour but is better than the JRC. I think what we are seeing now is that the latest colour sets are another step change in technology and mono has to be sold at a budget price to compete at all. In another couple of years I don't think there will be many monos left, but right now if I had limited funds I would probably buy a 1623 (but always wish I had colour!)
 
Re: Even cheaper than that...

I have a JRC 1000, and at the time it was way cheapest. Would ggo for the FURUNO though if ding it again. That said, my JRC is fine once offshore where the beamwidth is not so important. Closer in and amongst traffic, eg solent, it is far more difficult to make sense of.

Fitting witht the mast up is easy, steeling yourself to drill the mast and cut the cable is harder.
 
Hope I'm not losing the thread but I would appreciate the Forum's views. My boat is kitted with Raymarine C70 plotter, autopilot and so on. It has a GPS working on the same aerial. After an extremely hairy trip caused by sudden, unforecast fog in the shipping lanes across to St Valerie sur Somme last summer, never again! I don't want to have all eggs in one basket so rather than adding a Raymarine radome and accessories, I am thinking of buying the stand-alone little Furuno 1623 as an independent unit.
Does the Forum think this is sensible or am I being excessively neurotic?

Martin T.
 
If you can afford it then it seems a wise approach.

Tip for anyone considering buying radar is to get some training (and not out of a book!) as it's a complicated piece of kit which takes some understanding to get best results out of it.
 
I should have added... it's actually cheaper to add a separate Furuno unit than upgrade my existing Raymarine C70...
Thanks for your response.

Martin T.
 
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