Is the ARC a ripoff ?

captainslarty

captainslarty

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I would be interested to hear replies.
As for us ?., yes, we think it is a security net (not realistic) for people who want to do something but need support.
Would be interested in all replies.
the fangs of commercialism reach into the cruising world me fears, people make money from others uncertainty by selling misguided security....... ???????

Joe n Jayne n Molly
 
You pays your money you takes your choice. When we went aross (not with the ARC) we had preconcieved ideas on 'ARCers' - and thought they were best avoided. Actually there are a million ways to cross the Atlantic - all of them valid, and many became good friends.

We would never do an 'organised' event as that just doesn't suit us. We met people who loved it and met those who hated it.

My own view is why should I pay money for someone to tell me when to start to cross an ocean. When we went the ARC left and nobody else did because the forecast was crap - and we watched online as the entire fleet headed for Morocco, and got a real pasting - thats not safe in my book. (the reports on YBW and in the publications showed ideal conditions - which they were for the first two hours!!)

Some good friends of ours were asked to replace their brand new lifelines (it was a fresh out of the box Najad) with uncovered ones. A request they had to comply with - I understand the reason for the rule - but the enthusiasm in which it was enforced was complete tick box stupidity. If you hate nannyism (which is a major reason to escape in the first place) why go with a nanny?

Its a fantastic community out there and the ARC are sometimes a minor annoyance (booking up marinas and cleaning out chandlers to comply with regs) but there are many thousands of other boats going, and you tend to avoid going anywhere where there is the 'enforced jollity' of the flag flying ARC.

Put it this way, if you like doing the conger in a crowded Dodgy Dave Disco (but only when instructed to do so) go with the ARC, if you would prefer to go your own way, and dance on a deserted moonlit beach with your partner (but only when you want to) - don't.

Pay for the former or get the latter for free - your choice.

Yours aye

JackIron
 
It is a personal choice, isn't it?
We didn't cross with the ARC, thought it was a lot of money for a few parties and have always been concerned at the 'flock of sheep' mentality of all leaving on a particular date, pretty much regardless of the weather.
I don't believe that its any 'safer' being part of a group. If a Mayday goes out everyone has a responsibility to answer anyway.

www.gerryantics.blogspot.com
 
I participated in the ARC a couple of years ago with a company called ONDeck and I thought it was great fun, lots of organised events and entertainment. I am doubtful if it is any safer to cross the atlantic with the ARC than on your own. I had a far tougher time going from Portsmouth to the Canaries in November than I did sailing from the Canaries to St Lucia.

I would not go again with the ARC, but I think that what I got from the ARC was worth every penny it cost and I would recommend it if you want to find out if this way of life is for you or if you have kids onboard.
 
[ QUOTE ]


Some good friends of ours were asked to replace their brand new lifelines (it was a fresh out of the box Najad) with uncovered ones. A request they had to comply with - I understand the reason for the rule - but the enthusiasm in which it was enforced was complete tick box stupidity. If you hate nannyism (which is a major reason to escape in the first place) why go with a nanny?


[/ QUOTE ]

well ORC, ISAF Special Regulations have clearly specified that:

3.14.6 Lifeline Minimum Diameters, Required Materials, Specifications

a) Lifelines shall be stranded stainless steel wire of minimum diameter in table 8 below. Lifelines shall be uncoated and used without close-fitting sleeving.
Notwithstanding 3.14.6 (a) above, temporary sleeving may be fitted provided it is regularly removed for inspection

b) Grade 316 stainless wire is recommended.

LOA minimum wire diameter
under 8.5 m (28ft) 3 mm (1/8 in)
8.5m - 13 m 4 mm (5/32 in)
over 13 m (43 ft) 5 mm (3/16 in)

What I don't understand is that how come new out-of-the-box Najad would ship with substandard lifelines that ORC, out of experience, has found out to be unsafe in the long run?

I personally would never have accepted delivery of a new yacht that would be in violation of ORC Special Regs..

Maybe this is exactly the reason why it's good to take part in ARC, someone looks over your shoulder and points out unsafe items in your equipment...
 
I agree with the principle entirely - but it was the enthusiam with which it was enforced which would get up my nose. By following regs precisely they had to replace lifelines which were perfectly good for the intended passage, whilst others were allowed to set sail with out a single piece of steel in their rudder shaft - this was the Legend (F2) that never made it across after the rudder effectively fell off after the shaft sheered, and put others at risk whilst rescuing them. They complied with the regs but I would never have set out in that boat.

Nanny is not always right!

JackIron
 
Without the official start time you get your boat sorted at your own pace, and enjoy the time spent in the Canaries. I've had Christmas there twice leaving early or mid Jan. Very relaxed, everything sorted, no pressure and no problems.

My feeling is that on an ocean crossing you are on your own and that is part of the enjoyment. I've never had comm's once out of vhf range.

There's always a good party on arrival as you will meet other people who have arrived within hours or days of you, so the partying can carry on for days if you wish as new boats anchor up everyday. Or turn up at the Barbados sailing association on the beach and be welcomed by a local with cold beer!

Just look at what happens in Horta on the way back, every day you are welcoming 4 -5 new boats to the raft and celebrating safe arrivals or sharing stories of your crossing. One great party for as long as you choose to stay, or for as long as your liver survives?
 
If one is into parties etc, and as has been said, not concerned about not very seamanlike departure deadlines, and not worried about the cost, I suppose it,s for some, but knowing you 2/3, I don,t think it would suit you Joe /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
Re: Parafil lifelines

Yes, parafil lifelines are way superior to S/S wire - all of the RNLI offshore lifeboats have them. OK, they are larger diameter than wire (slightly more wind resistance - but who cares?) but this means that they are much easier to grab on to with your paws.

Re ARC (or non ARC) parties - yachtie folk are by nature gregarious and sociable animals, and an impromptu party will always happen as soon as you have a few boats present in an anchorage. Well, almost always.....
If you are worried about a party being 'dull', simply invite a singlehander who has just arrived after a few weeks at sea - you wont be able to shut him / her up...... /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
Put it this way, if you like doing the conger in a crowded Dodgy Dave Disco (but only when instructed to do so) go with the ARC, if you would prefer to go your own way, and dance on a deserted moonlit beach with your partner (but only when you want to) - don't.

Pay for the former or get the latter for free - your choice.


[/ QUOTE ]

I couldn't put it better! We went alone, when ready, had a serene crossing to Barbados and made loads of friends when we got there.
 
Some people will only do something if alot of other people are doing it at the same time.
If that is what they want good luck to them.
You dont have to do it.
 
Re: Parafil lifelines

Parafil is great - I have been thrown hard against my lifelines, which their elasticity absorbed nicely. Easy to fit yourself, but not compliant with Offshore regs. My reading of the regs is that additional bare wire lines could be added, since there isn't a requirement for them to pass through stanchions, as long as they are fixed at the correct heights and aren't outboard of the toe rail.
 
Can't comment if it's a rip off. You pay your money and take your choice. There are over 2,000 boats crossing the Atlantic each year the Arc accounts for 200+!! Met many people who join the Arc for the parties. Nuff said. If going to the Canaries to make sure you follow after the Arc.
The 'Arc's' are great fun when you meet one or two on the way, once they start to mass forget it, they become a totally different animal. Each to his/her own the 'danger' is having people believe it's safer to cross in company!! As others have said the crossing community is there whether you are part of the Arc or not. If there is a problem,yes, there is someone on the radio but effectively even if you are in sight of another vessel you are still on your own. Having said that, great friends had immense support when their rigging failed in the last Arc with equipment swapped between boats. The supporting boats stayed in 'touch' for the reaminder of the trip. Difficult to make a judgement on this one.
Our objection is the Narcs who effectively make it an obsession to be hangers on. There is no reason for this practice IMHO. You either join them or go on your own.
BTW we are totally anti Arc!
 
We crossed without the ARC in 2004. There is just as large a comunity crossing as NARCs. You meet just as many friends and the parties are just as good just not organised. A more informal way of doing the same crossing. We headed down to the Cape Verdes on route and spent 2 weeks there. The crossing to Barbados was then only 15 days. Suited us better with a husband and wife short crew
 
I'm planning my first atlantic crossing either in 2008 or 2009 and similarly contemplating the ARC.

My main concern about the ARC is the departure time (too early in the season for good trades and no tropical stroms?) and setting off when the weather forecast isn't so great ( I understand happened a couple of years ago). I guess you can choose as a prudent skipper to delay departure- but then miss out on the happenings in St Lucia.

The attraction, of course, is the support & stuff such as seminars etc ,but from what people have written in this and other threads, then maybe I shouldn't put too much emphasis on this.

If I decide not to do the ARC, I'd still fancy a support group though - I was chatting to Bajansailor and in part fun suggested we should organise the BAR (Barbados atlantic rally).. I'm working on Bajansailor to become the BAR steward at the other end!!
 
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