Is swage as strong?

[Rivers & creeks]

The rigging needs replacing on the boat we are buying, it's cheaper by a long way to use swaged talurit eye ends so why do most people use stalock/Norseman? Is swage not as strong? It's 6mm & 7mm wire on a masthead motorsailer and my idea was to measure the lot and get the likes of Jimmy Green Marine to make exact length copies, any other suggestions?

Thanks,

Simon

 

[pvb]

....so why do most people use stalock?

They don't. Swaging is the most common method of termination.

 

[VicMallows]

swaged TALUIT eye ends........ It's 6mm & 7mm wire

PVB ... I think he's caught you

 

[Rivers & creeks]

I may have used the wrong terms though! This is what I meant

 

[boomerangben]

The picture shows a sling with two ferule clamped hard eyes. I think swaging involves a wedge being place within the lay of a rope which effectively increases the diameter of the rope and then using that increase in diameter to lodge in a shaped end fitting.

The former is at least as strong as the wire rope. I don't know what effect a swage has on the strength of the wire rope.

 

[sailorman]

I may have used the wrong terms though! This is what I meant

Talurit splice

http://www.talurit.com/webbplats/english/

 

[VicMallows]

Apologies if I misconstrued your original post, but still surprised such a long-standing forumite would be asking such question

 

[Rivers & creeks]

Apologies if I misconstrued your original post, but still surprised such a long-standing forumite would be asking such question

You'd be amazed how much I don't know.

To (hopefully) get the question right, talurit is the cheapest but most use other terminal ends - is talurit as strong as anything else?

 

[Searush]

This is the sort of thing I have on my original rigging;

They require a really heavy machine to crimp them on & I believe they may be stronger if done properly. But will be pricey. The ones you show are done by a simple hydraulic manual press & I would guess get most of their strength from the fact that they loop round the eye & crimp on themselves. I have used one on a previous boat with no problems.

Boats (including some big ones) have safely sailed the world with galvanised rigging fastened by bulldog clips. A technique I have used to support damaged rigging in the past as a temporary fix.

As far as I can tell (not done any research), the main cause of premature failure is an inability to move easily at the fixing points. A simple eye like the ones you show can easily be fitted to allow plenty of movement.

 

[VicS]

I reckon the Norseman or Stalock or the swaged fittings like Searush shows simply look prettier. Esp on stainless wire.

A Talurit splice looks more traditional and the sort of thing you find on galvanised rigging

 

[30boat]

A Talurit swage is not suitable for 1X19 wire because this type of wire is too stiff to bend around a thimble in such a way that all the strands take the same load.The inside strands take most of the weight.It works ok for the smaller sizes of wire though,4mm or even 5mm.

 

[pvb]

PVB ... I think he's caught you

No, he just edited his original post!

 

[Grajan]

If using Talurit swaging make sure you use the correct type of ferrules, copper for stainless, alloy? for galv

 

[barnaclephill]

I reckon the Norseman or Stalock or the swaged fittings like Searush shows simply look prettier. Esp on stainless wire.

A Talurit splice looks more traditional and the sort of thing you find on galvanised rigging

I've always used the terminology of swage and ferrule interchangeably, but maybe I'm wrong. If the unit Searush uses is a swage, then the process is called swaging?

If the Talurit fitting (as per their website) calls them ferrules, then what is the process of fitting them: is it swaging or crimping?

Back to the OP's question, is there much difference in the strength?
Or is the difference mostly in terms of the wire diameter that can be successfully bent around the hard-eye?
Otherwise it comes down to (traditional or stylish) look and to price? Are these assumptions correct? I'm due for renewing my rigging soon.

 

[William_H]

Rigging wire

I have a mixture of both systems. I dare not name them as this post has shown I don't use the same terms as others. Certainly the type compressed copper onto 2 wires around a thimble are the cheapest and perfectly strong for smaller wire. I can see the point that 7mm wire would need to have a correspondingly large thimble. The thimble being the ss bit inside the circle that spreads the load.
In my case the correct stainless steel swage (as I call it) which is also the threaded part that goes into the turn screw was the most expensive part comparable to the cost of the wire. Of course the old one is discarded. But it does look neat.
So to the OP if your rigger will do crimp (swage) with thimble on 7mm wire. He might use the original thimbles (if they were used) then that should be cheaper and as strong provided thimble is big enough.
Thimbles on SS and galvanised wire have been used for a very long time compared to the roll swaged on the end of the wire type. olewill

 

[Ceirwan]

To confuse the area further Staylok (don't know about Norseman) also produce swage terminals!

A correctly done swage isn't clampled onto the wire, it crushed on so hard it changes the structure of the metal and essential becomes the wire. (Hard to explain when your falling asleep over the laptop)

A correctly done swage will be retain more wire strength thatn a correctly done talruit splice, however if your rigging orignally came with talruit splices then hopefully they took the reduction in wire strength into account, so it's up to you

 

[Rivers & creeks]

Thanks for all the replies, I think I now know the right terms! Interesting that Jimmy Green wan't do talurit eye's on anything above 6mm.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

...and get the likes of Jimmy Green Marine to make exact length copies, any other suggestions?

Whatever you have done, this lot are worth contacting for a quote...

www.s3i.co.uk/

A few of us here have used them successfully.

 

[Ubergeekian]

A correctly done swage isn't clampled onto the wire, it crushed on so hard it changes the structure of the metal and essential becomes the wire. (Hard to explain when your falling asleep over the laptop)

Yes indeed. If it's done properly, a swage results in a cold weld between the two metals - basically they are compressed together so hard that the crystals merge and you have one continuous metallic structure. The same holds for aluminium terminal scrimped onto copper wire, which is why crimped connections work so well.

 

[charles_reed]

To confuse the area further Staylok (don't know about Norseman) also produce swage terminals!

A correctly done swage isn't clampled onto the wire, it crushed on so hard it changes the structure of the metal and essential becomes the wire. (Hard to explain when your falling asleep over the laptop)

A correctly done swage will be retain more wire strength thatn a correctly done talruit splice, however if your rigging orignally came with talruit splices then hopefully they took the reduction in wire strength into account, so it's up to you

It's referred to as cold-pressure welding - usually best with aluminium & copper-based alloys.

Talurit is great on flexible wire ropes up to about 5mm.

The "cone-fixing" (norseman et al) are theoretically less robust than a well-made swage, but the devil is in the detail.
Too much pressure on the swage and the wires just above the swage work-harden and become liable to fatigue failure.
In fact 90% of rigging failures are alleged to occur at a swage terminal.

My confidant in all this a rigger who worked for Z-Diffusion's rigging section with the unlikely name of Lulu. As he rigged about 65% of the Ocean 60s I guess he knew what he was speaking about (his comment subsequently confirmed by Soton Uni researchers).