Is it time we outlawed these lifejackets?

[snooks]

My boat doesn't have a boom so that too is a risk I'm prepared to take.

The boom isn't the only way of knocking yourself unconscious. What about all your deck hardware? Winches? Cleats etc? Coachroof corners? Toerails? Cockpit combing etc? Windlass?

Slip and you could hit your head on anything enough to knock yourself out, boom or no boom.

But as you rightly say it's your choice, but just because some people preach, it doesn't make them wrong.

After shooting the video which was at the unheated RNLI wave pool, seeing for myself the effects of the cold and crotch straps had (as well as doing my sea survival course, and been involved with many other shoots for Yachting Monthly) I'll always wear crotch straps when I'm wearing a life jacket.

 

[Seajet]

seeing for myself the effects of the cold and crotch straps had

It's no good making excuses !

What does Mrs Snooks have to say on the subject ?

 

[FishyInverness]

^
I now have tea on my keyboard...Thanks Seajet!

 

[DogWatch]

I struggle to see how a CO2 canister can have an expiry date. I can readily accept that my Hammar Auto-firing mechanism can degrade but the CO2 canister, if looked afer well, is a totally sealed and inert object, what is there about it to degrade apart from the surface? It is after all a glorified "Sparklets" soda syphon bulb

I fired my old dunlop jackets before throwing them out last summer, ahhh summer, seems so long ago, hissing lawns, people laughi... anyhow, not one of the four inflated to anything better than 'a bit soft'. We had removed them from the boat years ago after replacing them 2 by 2 with the modern styled roll up jackets.

Following this disastrous bench (patio) test, I manually inflate the Dunlop's. They all blew up hard, only one seemed not to have become dangerously porous, the others started to soften within 20-30 minutes, the former was cushion soft the following morning. Not bad for late 1970's jackets really.

But the gas firing were all damp squibs, one was no better than an asthmatic rat trying to blow it up. So they do leak over time, annoying as I carry spare cylinders onboard for our jackets because if one is fired by accident or in anger, back on board the jacket would become useless unless we can rearm it. I am going to have to have to suck it up this year and buy 6 new cylinders, hmm, wish they were cheaper!

I have purposely bought manual inflation jackets as we sail a catamaran. If the worst was to happen and she did go over, I don't want to have to deflate the jacket to get out. There is another reason to have manual, though if you prefer auto jackets you would only need to carry one, if you need to go into the water to clear a prop or other maintenance then a manual jacket gives you two big benefits here, a strong point so the crew can keep you from drifting away and it wont fire. I have however since got a 50N buoyancy aid (now with crotch straps, it was worse than a normal jacket for trying to slide over the wearers head). 50N around my body gave me a surprising amount of buoyancy especially as I have negative buoyancy too. I have the buoyancy aid for swimming mainly, but it is more versatile for some jobs than a LJ, deffo worth considering.

 

[DogWatch]

Once someone goes over conscious or not the last thing on their mind will be to pull a toggle.

You think?

However, manual life jackets are much cheaper, don't have a trigger mechanism with an expiry date so I suspect it is a case of money being the key factor.

Wrong again, very wrong!

 

[webcraft]

You're jumping the gun. My response was to 'personal choice'. You have no choice with a training boat or charter boat. You get what is provided.

Of course you get a choice. If the type of lifejacket is a priority for you (rather than eg boat type, sailing area or quality of instruction) then you can enqujire beforehand and subsequently make an informed decision.

And before you say how many people know enough to do this - precisely, they don't need to know, it doesn't matter a jot. Or at least I think it doesn't. I will retract that and issue a grovelling apology if you can point to a single instance where a paying customer on a coded boat has been injured or killed simply because they were wearing a manual lifejacket rather than an automatic model.


- W

 

[FishyInverness]

Dogwatch, I take it those Dunlop's hadn't been serviced then? Impressive build quality all the same!

Just thought it prudent to add that the Automatic system on a Lifejacket is primarily a BACKUP - it is there in the event that the casualty is unable to pull the toggle, not the other way round.

The auto firing system should not be considered as the first line of your lifejacket's defence.

On any lifejacket, upon falling into open water your initial reaction should be to pull the toggle, ...this may all be Grandmothers and eggs to a lot of people, but you'd be surprised how many people get a little lightbulb dawning expression when you tell them this.

 

[jackho]

My issue with lifejackets is that there isn't a standard for manual operation ie. Some pull tags to operated are on different sides depending on the manufacturer. I have a combination on my boat and have to alert the crew every time they are used which side the pull tab is on. I regard this as a critical safety oversight by the CE or whoever is responsible - but perhaps thats the problem there isn't such an organisation to regulate!!??

 

[caiman]

Fishy-the initial,uncontrolable reaction to falling into the water will be to gasp.Try jumping into a cold bath/shower and see what happens.The auto inflate is so that the LJ can inflate while you are still in the position/state of not being able to pull the cord yourself.Depending on the circumstances you are unlikely to have the presance of mind to casualy feel about to find the 'teardrop' in the first few seconds,you will be too busy fighting off your own bodies reaction.
Cheers

 

[Seajet]

My issue with lifejackets is that there isn't a standard for manual operation ie. Some pull tags to operated are on different sides depending on the manufacturer. I have a combination on my boat

Don't you think it might be up to you, some might say your duty, to provide all one type to avoid what sounds like an accident waiting to happen ?

The only reason they'e not all the same, when it comes down to it, is you are saving money...

 

[Elessar]

I expect. In reality, if you fire your lifejacket and keep yourself afloat without a crotch strap, you will be working harder to keep the jacket in place over your head

I expect, in reality, you haven't done the back to back test I have.
If you have, we have come to different conclusions.
I respect the conclusion you've come to for yourself.

 

[RobF]

Whilst being a fan of auto-inflating lifejackets, I was annoyed that after the mechanism fired (I fell out the tender!) that it cost me more to replace the firing mechanism and gas bottle than the original purchase price of the lifejacket. I concluded that lifejackets are like inkjet printers where the consumables are more expensive than the primary item?

 

[Elessar]

Slip and you could hit your head on anything enough to knock yourself out, boom or no boom.

Of course. Why do you presume I have the intellectual capacity of a 4 year old and that I haven't worked out the blatantly obvious? Slip, hit my head in the cockpit of my boat and bounce 36" up, and over into the water. I've never been unconscious, never bounced 36" and only fallen fully in once (no L/J) So your scenario is extremely unlikely and a risk I'm prepared to take.

But as you rightly say it's your choice, but just because some people preach, it doesn't make them wrong.

They are wrong in not respecting my choice for myself. Some "lament" my choice, some preach or just state the obvious thinking that will convince me of the errors of my ways. This is not about their conclusion about a safety device, it is about their approach. And you have fallen into the same category so are wrong too IMHO.

I'll always wear crotch straps when I'm wearing a life jacket.

Good for you. I have both on board so my guests can too. 16 life jackets on a boat coded for 8, so the right one can hopefully be selected for the right person/task.

BTW as an instructor I advise people that by default they should always wear a life jacket and it should always have crotch straps. The only exception is when they have asked the question and have decided that, on that day, it is safe enough not to.

 

[Talulah]

You think?



Wrong again, very wrong!

Could you explain further?

 

[Cloona]

last time i looked at the co2 cylinders on my auto/manual lj's they had both become unscrewed - due i think to engine vibration - annoying discovery on a sunny afternoon but at another time could have been serious -

and they keep going off on dinghy trips - carelessness then punished by the replacement cost -

anyway found I prefer a old type lifevest - crewsaver style thing - doesn't dig into my neck - I am not carring a lump of weight around my neck I suppose -

also when different clothing is required - t shirt - jumper - jacket - you have to re-rig yourself everytime -

i agree with the person tallking about a buoyant lifevest with good pockets - maybe a neck friendly collar - not sure new fangled means better -

 

[DogWatch]

Could you explain further?

I explained my choice in the last paragraph of this earlier post. I am actually a bit uncomfortable with my choice if I am brutally honest, but I have to weigh up this serious consideration.

SNIPPY SNIP>>

I have purposely bought manual inflation jackets as we sail a catamaran. If the worst was to happen and she did go over, I don't want to have to deflate the jacket to get out. There is another reason to have manual, though if you prefer auto jackets you would only need to carry one, if you need to go into the water to clear a prop or other maintenance then a manual jacket gives you two big benefits here, a strong point so the crew can keep you from drifting away and it wont fire. I have however since got a 50N buoyancy aid (now with crotch straps, it was worse than a normal jacket for trying to slide over the wearers head). 50N around my body gave me a surprising amount of buoyancy especially as I have negative buoyancy too. I have the buoyancy aid for swimming mainly, but it is more versatile for some jobs than a LJ, deffo worth considering.