Is it time we outlawed these lifejackets?

[Woodlouse]

The only disadvantage is that if I go in unconcious,it is not guaranteed to 'self right' me.Manufactures take note, 'Lifejacket' that people 'want' to wear.
Cheers
Cheers

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I thought the sole necessary feature of a life jacket is that it keeps you the right way up regardless of consciousness. I've been lead to understand that this is the defining factor that separates life jackets and buoyancy aids.

Unless you have your facts slightly warped then I cannot believe that the RNLI would be supporting a "life jacket" with such an important, and obvious flaw.

 

[monkfish24]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I thought the sole necessary feature of a life jacket is that it keeps you the right way up regardless of consciousness. I've been lead to understand that this is the defining factor that separates life jackets and buoyancy aids.

Unless you have your facts slightly warped then I cannot believe that the RNLI would be supporting a "life jacket" with such an important, and obvious flaw.

i dodn't think he was referring to the RNLI LJ, I think he was talking about his own BA that he wears that is a Gilet style

 

[maxi77]

I struggle to see how a CO2 canister can have an expiry date. I can readily accept that my Hammar Auto-firing mechanism can degrade but the CO2 canister, if looked afer well, is a totally sealed and inert object, what is there about it to degrade apart from the surface? It is after all a glorified "Sparklets" soda syphon bulb

Indeed these cylinders are but glorified sparklets bulbs and in reality also enjoy the same manufacturing process. I worked for a comapny that used significant quantities of these cylinmders in a number of our oproducts. The cylinders were the only components which were 100% checked on delivery because up tp 5% were not filled properly.

Your cylinders should be weight checked on delivery and then at least once a year after that. They can leak and that could be fatal.

I do not think they are lifed items but they do need to be properly checked on a regular basis

 

[caiman]

Woodlouse-you are forgiven,Monkfish-Thank You.The point is,if you are not wearing the 'kin thing,it will not do you any good,LJ,BA or san fairy ann.
Cheers

 

[William_H]

Some people like to separate the life jacket and harness function so that they can clip on without a life jacket. Some worry that, if their boat can do 20 knots, being dragged along at that speed may be more traumatic than floating behind - so no need for a harness.
H.

A tether which can allow you to actually go into the water is worse than useless. If you are being dragged behind a moving boat at more than 2 knots you are dead meat. LJ or not. Tethers must be short enough to hold you on board. In which case LJ is superfluous.

On my boat when weather gets a bit rough we wear bouyancy vests. Very comfortable and keep us warm but with buoyancy which is always there. Just don't go unconscious.
olewill

 

[jsl]

CO2 expiry

I struggle to see how a CO2 canister can have an expiry date. I can readily accept that my Hammar Auto-firing mechanism can degrade but the CO2 canister, if looked afer well, is a totally sealed and inert object, what is there about it to degrade apart from the surface? It is after all a glorified "Sparklets" soda syphon bulb

Just for the record, I fired an old airline lifejacket the other day: the cylinder worked perfectly, though it needed a good hard tug on the cord. And when I say old...British European Airways, flying key and all.

 

[FishyInverness]

I have just been privalaged to view the new RNLI prototype LJ's that will hopefully be issued to the coast in 2011.The ALB LJ's are twin stole,auto on one,manuel on both.They have lights,flares,spray hood,whistle,crutch straps as standard.What is grounbreaking about these jackets is the fact they actually have pockets on them.As far as I am aware,there are no comercially available LJ's that come with pockets.(please enlighten me).

Cheers

Spinlock Deckvest 275n (not sure about the 150n) has mesh pockets...


RNLI mention nothing in their lifejacket care guidelines re expiry dates on bottles, just to check the integrity every month. I suspect the OP's Seacheck person was referring to the bobbin, which is as follows:

United Moulders cartridge : Expiry Date is printed on the side of the black cartridge, will read something like EXP1012, meaning it expires october 2012.

Halkey Roberts "Salt Tablet" (bobbin) type : The bobbin has a lifespan of four years and it is printed with the date of MANUFACTURE not expiry. There's also two different ways that they print it, either as 06001 meaning the first day of 2006 or as JAN01,06, HR meaning January the first 2006. So the Halkey Roberts bobbins should be replaced if they are over 4 years from the indicated date.

 

[webcraft]

Whilst it is personal choice when buying a life jacket Joe public is unaware of what life jackets are provided on charter or training boats.

Eh? The safety brief on a training boat includes supervised fitting of the lifejacket and clear instructions on how it operates, whether manual or automatic. Automatic inflation mechanisms can fail, and therefore even when it is an automatic jacket all trainees are shown how to manually inflate it as well.

Similarly, charter operators should include a detailed safety brief including operation of lifejackets as part of the handover. I have certainly been given one when chartering and have included one when doing handovers myself.

- W

 

[mattonthesea]

I have a Spinlock LJ with what I cal proper legstraps; they are designed to fit legs rather than a crotch. Hardly notice them except I had to put a bit of bungee between them to stop them dropping to my knees when bending my legs.

But really it's a glorified harness as there is no one to come back for me if I go over!

Incidentally, it's a good idea to check them on purchase. the first one I pcked up was a display model; equipped entirely with bubble wrap and packing tape!

 

[Seajet]

mattonthesea,

Not being funny, this is meant quite seriously without any agenda, did you see there's a safety recall on the Spinlock job ?

Not sure of the details but rather worth checking if you haven't already.

 

[FishyInverness]

The Recall is only on the new, ISO Jackets, though for piece of mind you can go HERE and check.

 

[Talulah]

Eh? The safety brief on a training boat includes supervised fitting of the lifejacket and clear instructions on how it operates, whether manual or automatic. Automatic inflation mechanisms can fail, and therefore even when it is an automatic jacket all trainees are shown how to manually inflate it as well.

Similarly, charter operators should include a detailed safety brief including operation of lifejackets as part of the handover. I have certainly been given one when chartering and have included one when doing handovers myself.

- W

You're jumping the gun. My response was to 'personal choice'. You have no choice with a training boat or charter boat. You get what is provided.

 

[stav]

Some interesting points but it seems to me that comparing a lifejacket to wearing a seat belt or crash helmet is just too simplistic. I carry a selection of bouancy aids and lifejackets on board/in the dinghy. I think we have 4 small child/baby solid foam lifejackets, 2 adult bouyancy aids, 2 manual lifejackets/harnesses, two auto lifejackets with lights, straps, face cover 150N, and one 275N auto which I wear when on my own and it is bad with a supply of sweets and a waterproof hand held VHF.

All are used in different circumstances and times. The inflatable devices are pumped up once a year and checked.

The bouyancy aids worn when all of us are in the dinghy, the manual LJs are worn when sailing by the nominated parent (me) who is charged with going over the side if one of the girls goes over board whether at sea or in the marina, after all I might want to swim some distance etc. All welcome to your own thoughts about that but it is our discussed plan. The wife is day skipper and can call for help.

When on my own I often do not wear a lifejacket, but take the following in to consideration: presence of other boats, sea temp/time of year, weather conditions and job about to do. But also take in to account a boat that is disinclined to broach or partake of other unforseen violent movements.

So I think the prescribed wearing of lifejackets is poor when what is really needed is good education and perhaps modern yacht's people need to take some time to gain experience rather than suddenly expecting to know it all and sail by numbers and policy.

 

[91Blue]

Okay, a few thoughts on this thread.


Actually, yes, RNLI crews do, often wear harnesses on deck.

I don't think that the CO2 cylinders are a dated item but it is well worthwhile checking the weight frequently (annually?) as there are documented incidences of these things leaking.

From what I understand, the RNLI does no preaching but offers advice to boating people in order to stop accidents; that's wrong how?!

The are clearly people who can't see past the end of their own nose, what about all of the times when being clipped on is absolutely not recommended?!

Crotch straps can save lives; they come into their own after several hours of immersion.

Statistically, immersion victims are more likely to survive if wearing a PFD, FACT!

 

[FishyInverness]

Statistically, immersion victims are more likely to survive if wearing a PFD, FACT!

You had better have brought along your ringbinder of facts, dated, countersigned and witnessed by an attorney, as the naysayers (of which I am not one, I hasten to add!) will be along in a moment demanding your head for such a blatantly controversial statement supporting the wearing of PFD's!

(Having just had my Lifejacket servicing tutorial, I can confirm that the Co2 cylinders do not have expiration dates - regular checking and weighing is advised...)

 

[snooks]

why?

mine works fine without.

I know because I jumped in from about 10 ft up twice, both with and without the crotch strap fitted. Because I wanted to see what all the preachers were on about.

Crotch straps aren't for keeping the jacket down when you jump in. It's misinfomation like that which leads people to believe they don't need them.

Crotch straps are to support your body once in the water, holding you up, which means you need less effort to keep your head out of the water and stopping the lifejackets riding up.



Watch from 4:19 onwards and you'll see what they do.

The lifejackets inflating stop at 3:30 where the video then goes to show the differences in spray hood design

 

[mcframe]

The bouyancy aids worn when all of us are in the dinghy, the manual LJs are worn when sailing by the nominated parent (me) who is charged with going over the side if one of the girls goes over board whether at sea or in the marina, after all I might want to swim some distance etc. All welcome to your own thoughts about that but it is our discussed plan. The wife is day skipper and can call for help.

When on my own I often do not wear a lifejacket, but take the following in to consideration: presence of other boats, sea temp/time of year, weather conditions and job about to do. But also take in to account a boat that is disinclined to broach or partake of other unforseen violent movements.

Good plan, I agree about the nominated parent - except when I'm on my own I wear my auto and transfer the PLB from the compainionway to my LJ. I don't carry a h/h VHF, but do have a day/night flare in a pocket on my auto LJ.

You might consider a cockpit mic so the non-nominated parent could do a DSC call whilst turning the boat round.

(If I go off a fully-crewed race boat (in daylight), it /might/ not be a mayday, but if I go off *my* *own* family boat, then it probably is!...)

 

[cliff]

As for falling in the water unconscious. How often does that happen? I know all the theoretical scenarios of getting cracked on the head by the boom and all, but seriously, how often does that result in the casualty going over the side?

Once - then I learnt to duck faster - still have a big piece of scalp missing

 

[Elessar]

Crotch straps aren't for keeping the jacket down when you jump in. It's misinfomation like that which leads people to believe they don't need them.

Crotch straps are to support your body once in the water, holding you up, which means you need less effort to keep your head out of the water and stopping the lifejackets riding up.



Watch from 4:19 onwards and you'll see what they do.

The lifejackets inflating stop at 3:30 where the video then goes to show the differences in spray hood design

I understand this. Mine ride up more without crotch straps of course, but by an acceptable amount. Even when the l/j is very loose and rides up quite a bit, I can lay on my back, pull it down and tighten the waist strap making it not ride up. I choose therefore not to use crotch straps because I don't like them, and the benefit they give me isn't worth it.

Yes that won't work if I'm unconscious. My boat doesn't have a boom so that too is a risk I'm prepared to take.

I still say that a lot of the crotch strap preachers haven't actually compared it for themselves. Anyway I don't care if they have, wear one if you want to - I have made an informed decision not to.

 

[FishyInverness]

Yes that won't work if I'm unconscious. My boat doesn't have a boom so that too is a risk I'm prepared to take.

What you haven't taken into account is that your test, effective though it might be, was under controlled conditions, fair temperature, calm water, I expect. In reality, if you fire your lifejacket and keep yourself afloat without a crotch strap, you will be working harder to keep the jacket in place over your head...how long do you think you could keep that up in rough, cold water? You are likely to tire, and then your body will sag, increasing the likelihood of the jacket riding over your head. Surely if you'd made the effort to don a lifejacket, you'd want to ensure that if the worst scenario happens when you use the lifejacket, it will perform it's function?

I still say that a lot of the crotch strap preachers haven't actually compared it for themselves. Anyway I don't care if they have, wear one if you want to - I have made an informed decision not to.

It makes me sad that you call common sense "preaching"