Is it time to upgade navigation lights?

[Nostrodamus]

I don't know when the rules governing the brightness and placement of navigation lights on boats were made effective but one would think it was at a time when candles were still being used.

Technology and more effective lighting has moved on yet smaller boats are still difficult to see at night, especially in bad weather.

Is it time to upgrade navigational lighting to something that can more easily be seen?

Look at fishing boats or any bigger cargo boat at night and you would be lucky to pick out any port or starboard lights amongst all the other million watt bulbs they use so why are sailors so anal and paranoid that there one candle watt tricolour is working and meets nav light requirements?

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Its rooted in cost and power availability. Small yachts don't have a big power store and some may not have access to the wads of cash required to upgrade to better or more powerful lights.

I don't think the power levels need to be increased but maintenance of lamps and protecting arcs of visibility could perhaps be given more emphasis.

 

[Nostrodamus]

Its rooted in cost and power availability. Small yachts don't have a big power store and some may not have access to the wads of cash required to upgrade to better or more powerful lights.

I don't think the power levels need to be increased but maintenance of lamps and protecting arcs of visibility could perhaps be given more emphasis.

A sailing boats motoring green and red lights are often so close to the water line and so dull they can be next to useless. When motoring there is no problem with power. Surely lights that can be seen by others are a priority.
I agree they are still expensive but what price can you put on safety?
LED's can be powerful, less power hungry and far brighter.
As for the anchor light.. in a lot of anchoring locations a dull white light at the top of the mast is almost a waste of time.
People will change halogens to LED's internally to save power but changing nav lights seems to be less of a priority.

 

[[70521]]

Technology and more effective lighting has moved on yet smaller boats are still difficult to see at night, especially in bad weather.

So it's four candles then?

 

[Nostrodamus]

So it's four candles then?

 

[Deleted member 36384]

A sailing boats motoring green and red lights are often so close to the water line and so dull they can be next to useless. When motoring there is no problem with power. Surely lights that can be seen by others are a priority.
I agree they are still expensive but what price can you put on safety?
LED's can be powerful, less power hungry and far brighter.
As for the anchor light.. in a lot of anchoring locations a dull white light at the top of the mast is almost a waste of time.
People will change halogens to LED's internally to save power but changing nav lights seems to be less of a priority.

It's been claimed that Bi Lanterns at the bow are better than Tri Colour lanterns at the masthead when it comes to being noticed. I cant remember where this claim has been made. It is certainly quoted as advice for near coast sailing where background shore lights mask the Tri Colour.

The anchor light at the mast is recognisable from a distance but close in it certainly is not very good. I use a traditional oil fired lamp suspended above the foredeck. The lens is large and the area illuminated is far superior to a masthead lamp. Again this is cost and power driven for small yachts. There is no reason that a small yacht could not carry and all round white light that they could suspend above the foredeck and plug in. The alternatives are there to be used.

 

[awol]

It may be your perception that the rules need changing but I cannot think of the evidence to justify it. Bad watchkeeping has been identified - photochromatic lenses and insufficient dark adaptation in the case of the Ouzo - but I can't think of any dim lighting caused casualties, though I am prepared to be corrected. It is your choice which lights to fit.

I have Aquasignal 40s with 25W bulbs - good for <20m boats - and an LED tri-colour. I tend to find the deck lights too bright at night once away from shore light pollution and their loom detrimental to night vision.

 

[snooks]

Have you hit a boat at night?

Has a boat hit you at night?

No? Then I suggest you're trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist

Btw if your lights are crazed they could be reducing the power by 50%

So if they're not broke, don't fix 'em

 

[lw395]

The main danger is too much stray light on your own boat making it hard to see other people's nav lights, lights on buoys etc.

 

[Lodds]

It's been claimed that Bi Lanterns at the bow are better than Tri Colour lanterns at the masthead when it comes to being noticed. I cant remember where this claim has been made. It is certainly quoted as advice for near coast sailing where background shore lights mask the Tri Colour.
.

Id' be very interest in this as I'm considering putting a Tri-colour on the mast in addition to the bi-colour I have on the bow. Appreciate any thoughts you may have.

 

[[70521]]

It's been claimed that Bi Lanterns at the bow are better than Tri Colour lanterns at the masthead when it comes to being noticed. I cant remember where this claim has been made. It is certainly quoted as advice for near coast sailing where background shore lights mask the Tri Colour.

And much easier if a bulb blows.

 

[bitbaltic]

A sailing boats motoring green and red lights

They aren't there for motoring.

[gets coat before the thread turns into another round of colregs]

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Id' be very interest in this as I'm considering putting a Tri-colour on the mast in addition to the bi-colour I have on the bow. Appreciate any thoughts you may have.

Well I cant recall specifics but the Ouzo incident springs to mind and the many discussions around that. Its counter intuitive because the Tri Colours (or masthead lights) have a greater range than side lights. I would still fit the Tri.

 

[prv]

A sailing boats motoring green and red lights

They aren't there for motoring.

Indeed not. KS only has one set of navigation lights, plus a masthead light that turns on and off.

Pete

 

[davidaprice]

People will change halogens to LED's internally to save power but changing nav lights seems to be less of a priority.

I was recently reading a bulletin of the safety committee of the Finnish sailing federation. They said that manufacturers of navigation lights typically get type approval for their lights with specific incandescent bulbs, and if owners replace those with 'equivalent' LED bulbs, they should check with the manufacturer or seller first or their boat's lights might strictly be illegal.

 

[Resolution]

Have you hit a boat at night?

Has a boat hit you at night?

No? Then I suggest you're trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist

Btw if your lights are crazed they could be reducing the power by 50%

So if they're not broke, don't fix 'em

Gosh Snooks that's a bit reactionary! Surely the point is that LEDs are now widely available that can produce "brighter" light with much less power consumption than the old incandescant bulbs. Of course we should be using them on sailboats where power consumption is a big factor.
As far as brightness is concerned, the only downside that I can see of having brighter running lights is that we should improve the backing plates to shield stray light from spoiling the crew's nightvision.

 

[Nostrodamus]

They aren't there for motoring.

[gets coat before the thread turns into another round of colregs]

You are indeed right. My boat is over 12m and I have both the side lights and tricolour.

 

[bitbaltic]

You are indeed right. My boat is over 12m and I have both the side lights and tricolour.

I have the same on a 9m boat. Being over 12m only means you have to have bow running lights, but there's no requirement to keep the tricolor (actually at any length if you have bow lights). I never use mine.

 

[LittleSister]

It's been claimed that Bi Lanterns at the bow are better than Tri Colour lanterns at the masthead when it comes to being noticed. I cant remember where this claim has been made. It is certainly quoted as advice for near coast sailing where background shore lights mask the Tri Colour.

Id' be very interest in this as I'm considering putting a Tri-colour on the mast in addition to the bi-colour I have on the bow. Appreciate any thoughts you may have.

I'd agree that at close quarters - more in rivers and harbours than off the coast - deck level lights are likely to be easier to see/understand from other craft, especially if you have a 60ft mast!

On the other hand, once in the open sea, the deck lights on almost any small yacht are so low they will be prone to being hidden by waves and the curve of the earth (as well as the problems of loom and reflection affecting one's own night vision). Hence I much prefer to use a tricolour when at sea.

People have said above that powering lights is no problem if you are motoring. That doesn't necessarily apply to boats powered by small outboards, which are likely to provide little, if any, electrical power. On small craft the weight and size of a battery that is normal on a medium sized yacht would be very difficult to accommodate on a very small one, and impossible to recharge.

On one of my boats I spent much of my holiday cruising time carting my battery around harbour towns trying to find someone who would recharge it for me. My lighting on another boat consisted of a torch shone on the sails when required. I wasn't very happy with the arrangement, but the easiest way to solve it was to buy a bigger boat with an inboard - bit of an expensive way of getting good nav lights! LEDs have eased, but not solved, those problems for small craft.

 

[chinita]

Makes no difference to the trawling fishing boat steaming towards you how bright your lights are - he aint gonna change course for some poncy leisure sailor.

Defensive sailing; keep a good lookout at all times and keep out of the way.

IMHO of course.