Is it foolhardy to deliberately sail into a F7 / F8?

[Guest]

I have no hesitations in setting sail into an F6 (22-27 Knots) and I find F7 (28-33 Knots) is rather good fun ... seems to be my average so far this year, too.

At what point does setting forth in a heavy 10m yacht of solid construction, well maintained and with full safety gear actually start to become negligent?

I have a serious reason for asking: apart from wanting to gain some experience in MY boat in an F8, she seems as if she'd take it without complaint.

With a triple reefed main and a working jib (I have a storm jib also) I sense the boat would be fine. The lower reaches of the Bristol Channel reamina relatively sheltered, without a long fetch on the waves, although a mean chop may develop.

As to why - that's a harder question. Experience? Fun? Learn something else about myself or my boat? Same reasons as we deliberately go sail in lower speeds, really.

Your opinions please!

 

[Guest]

Strongly crewed, with ample searoom, clear of lee shores, with shelter available, no. Otherwise, yes

assuming as the first given that the boat is indeed well up to the job, which it seems she is.

The point about dangers to leeward is important as rather few boats get to windward in F8 - and an 8 can turn into a 9!

 

[Guest]

With the right skipper....most definitely not....

But building up your experience in careful stages, as you seem to be doing, certainly makes sense.

There can be no doubt that your fine boat will take far more punihment than her crew can.

 

[Guest]

You are going to get caught one day so getting some experience is an excellent idea.

Just give your self searoom. Even a 10 should be no problem with open water and no wind-against-tide or similar. Go and enjoy.

 

[Guest]

Ummmm ! (Yes = No and No = Yes?)

Are you trying to run H aground on his Seacracker 33?

Otherwise, IMO, setting out in a F7/8 is dodgy. The interesting thing is that once you are out and have 35 to 40 knots for several days, when it drops to 25 knots you tend to get on your knees and pray for a bit of wind. (But then I'm talking about reaching NOT beating and with no currents .... because beating into F5+ wind over tide can be hell)

Personally I find F7 close to a lee shore more terrifying than F8/9 on real blue water (not grey - because that's too shallow and the waves become too short square and dumpy.)

 

[Guest]

Nigel that obviously IS you - I agree with you (nm)

no message

 

[Guest]

Some negatives

It's miserable when you get too cold and/or tired... Adds to the wear and tear on the boat, so you need more maintenance time and money - but worth it?!

 

[Guest]

Re: Strongly crewed, with ample searoom, clear of lee shores, with shelter available, no. Otherwise, yes

I don't care for excessive risks and would never deliberately set forth when an F9 was even hinted at. However, setting out into an F7 can produce an F8 without much bother - even if only for a hour or so in a localised area (often not even forecast).

As to sailing to windward, that's an interesting point. So far, in F7, she seems to behave herself very well. I must admit to being the type who only reefs down when needs must, and a second reef is my limit so far on my boat - the reluctance stemming from wanting to win a friendly race etc. To tell the truth, she is an unfairly fun boat to sail!

Would it be a realistic exercise to sail with a triple reefed main in an F7 to gauge potential windward ability in an F8 or do the increased wind forces mean that my sail trim would then be so radically different there's only one way to find out?

 

[Guest]

Re: Sailing INTO a 7/8

...or do you mean, sailing IN a 7/8.

Sailing into anything over a 7 can be very hard on the boat mainly because the boat comes off the top of each wave and launches into mid-air. With this scenario comes potential injury to the crew and damage to rig and boat.

That said, one day it will happen and its best that you get some heavy weather experience now whilst you are prepared for it than being caught unawares and unsure of how the boat will handle it.

Many years ago I was caught out between Dartmouth and Weymouth when the wind swung from the forecast SW4/5 to an unforecast 8/9 from the NW. I had my young family on board and they were too frightened to see me go on deck to reef the main. This passage taught me many lessons....and resulted in in-mast furling.

It is one thing to play around in a well found boat in a 7/8 and have everything working and another thing entirely to suddenly discover that your main has ripped and doesn't function or the exhaust elbow has fractured and you can't use the engine.

Go and enjoy your gale, but remember that on a boat when one thing stops functioning it invariably causes a breakdown in other systems...and that this NEVER happens in a force 3/4 following wind!

 

[Guest]

Re: Seastate - is far more important ...

It amazed me that this discussion got thus far without its mention (seastate). Wellington's (NZ) RPNYC would be out of business if they didn't regularly sail in Force 9 - almost the norm! Of course we don't get the tides you guys deal with - apart from channels like Tory Ch and (the ultimate) French Pass where there's literally a step in the water. Overfalls in Cook Strait can be a interesting but then cross strait races are timed pretty carefully - if you don't get the tide right - forget it. Funny thing - you never hear Beaufort's scale used here. Can't imagine why - it's so descriptive and useful - perhaps it went out with decimalisation (when I arrived). Our wind comes mostly in KPH which is VERY boring! Guess you too'll get it soon, eh?

 

[Guest]

What happens when ...

.. your vaunted in mast furling falls over? At least with simple gear you've a cat in hells chance of sorting something out!

 

[Guest]

Seastate!

That's more important than the exact wind strength.

Go with what ACB has said. An F8 out in the Atlantic is an inconvenience (searoom). On the lakes in Holland its a bit of fun (shelter). In the Channel, specially with wind against tide, its altogether another matter. But unless you try, you'll never know ...

 

[Guest]

Re: Strongly crewed, with ample searoom, clear of lee shores, with shelter available, no. Otherwise, yes

You will surely never get that combination all at once. "Strongly crewed, with ample searoom, clear of lee shores, with shelter available"

you might get first three

but ample sea room and shelter available sounds contradictory

 

[Guest]

Let me re-phrase the question ...

The forecast say F6 to F7 etc. and I am snugged up in nmy marina berth. If I always waited for less than F6 I'd miss many fine days of sailing. So is it stupid to go out for a "day sail" when an F7 is likely? What if F8 is on the cards?

I agree about the chain of events when things start to go awry - and that's part of my reasoning. In many respects, I'd like to experience an F8 near to home where I have safe retreats - if only a fair anchorage -- but in waters I know and not in the middle of the Irish Sea or the Bay of Biscay.

So far I have taken Sergeant Pepper on two 80 mile trips in 30+ winds with the sole intention of fault finding. These trips in preparation for a much more adventourous cruise this Summer. I have uncovered several probelms which could have been much more serious in an F8. These included:

>Worn out bearings in the roller furling.

I rebuilt the furling assembly and also installed a removeable inner forestay.

> Salloon table not secure

The table is now removed and stowed for sea behind a settee berth, held in place with a suitable strapping.

> Dodgers

I have learned that dodgers should always be removed in bad weather or they make perfect funnels to scoop water and sluice it into the cockpit.

> Security of big items

All settee lockers now have hinges, batteries are lashed, anchor is stowed in chocks in the anchor lcokers, other anchors (I have a collection) are lashed or wedged solidly in their lockers).

The list goes on, but there is sure to be another list which will only be written when the skipper and boat have been in the next ladder nup the Beaufort scale -- namely the F8.

I'd like to swap thoughts on what preparations etc. you have implemented for heavy weather since your drubbing?

I have only sailed in an F9 once - on a Ranger 33 in 1978 - and that was horreandous but not dangerous. But the boat was very well found, the skipper was the stuff of legend and I was proably too young & stupid to know better!

 

[Guest]

Re: If it is then I am.

Firstly there's the "forecast" element. Forecasts are, post Michael Fish & the Hurricane, likely to over egg the pud.Quite often the best time to get going is when a gale is forecast. It takes a while for the seas to build and tommorrows F4 with the gales left over sea state may be more unpleasant.

Then there's the local area consideration. If you know the local area you know where or if you can have a sail in strong winds.If you don't know the local area it's time to learn.

Then there's the purpose of your voyage. If your racing or delivering or have half a dozen paying guests you will find a way of getting sailing. You can add being examined for an RYA certificate to this group.

Heavy weather is a time for experience. In fact I dare say that no one should sail in heavy weather who hasn't done so before. Tricky. If you've been sailing for years and you've not experienced a gale your clearly a much better met man than I am.

Know your boat, know your area, prepare boat and crew. Have a failsafe plan and give it a try. It's better to ease yourself into heavy weather sailing by short controled exposures than get bounced by an unforecast gale Mid Channel.

Tom