Is Greece losing its charm?

Bertramdriver

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Back in the UK to escape the summer heat and madness, I've had time to reflect on the 10 years of cruising and 45 years association with the country. This spring was a long cycle of poor weather, mechanical problems but mostly crowded harbours and moorings. Most of my Greek friends and acquaintances have become bitter and cynical, only a few stars retaining their Greek hospitality, and many of my fellow cruisers are equally depressed by the antics of the Eastern European charter scourge.
Is it time to move on?
And for those who talk about mooring up in secluded quite bays. I tried to visit one of our favourites only to find the bay jammed by four charter catamarans actually rafted side by side on anchor.
What do you do?
 

sailaboutvic

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Not moaning....mourning
Yep that how Greece is going and as been for quite a few years now . as far as moving on Rivonia I think you find a lot are , some are even missing Greece out totally and heading straight for Turkey .
The only ones still think Greece is a steal are ? well I think we all know who they are .
As far as Greek Hospitality goes , that went out the window years ago ,
Example where once you use to get free fresh bread with your meal now you get old stall toasted bread and there charge you 1.50 if you want it or not .
I love Greece , but it lost it appeal to me lately , we only spend five weeks there this year and that was more then enough .
Bluewatersailorcroatia.webs.com
 

AndrewB

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Today's exchange at a bakery in Nidri:

Me: "One of those loaves please".
Shopkeeper: "That will be 1.50 euro".
Me: "But you just charged the previous customer 1 euro for exactly the same loaf".
Shopkeeper: "Ah, yes, she is a regular" (i.e. a Greek - no sign the shopkeeper actually knew her).
Me: "Well, can I have the regular price".

At least in the Caribbean shopkeepers have the grace to look slightly guilty when caught out like this.
 
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stranded

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Don't really see the problem on the bread price - lots of UK pubs, especially destination ones, do 'locals prices' , and so they should.
 

sailaboutvic

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I had the same conversation two years ago in lakka , ended up walking without the beard and four other followers me out , bead is one euros unless you buy one of the big once or a fancy bread , just ripping people off , best place for bread in Nidri is walk up the street opposition Nelson pontoon and the waste land and you find a bakery on the right at the T road .
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scoty

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Today's exchange at a bakery in Nidri:

Me: "One of those loaves please".
Shopkeeper: "That will be 1.50 euro".
Me: "But you just charged the previous customer 1 euro for exactly the same loaf".
Shopkeeper: "Ah, yes, she is a regular" (i.e. a Greek - no sign the shopkeeper actually knew her).
Me: "Well, can I have the regular price".

At least in the Caribbean shopkeepers have the grace to look slightly guilty when caught out like this.
For those that have not had the experience YET, mooring prices are calculated the same way, to visitors,,or as was explained to me, quote, you pay these prices in Brighton Marina,,,so thats the Price for a UK yacht here,,,,
 
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Aegina is by no means MY idea of the Greek idyll. We cruise the Gulfs quite a lot and have not noticed much change there recently (apart from the weather!)
 

charles_reed

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Back in the UK to escape the summer heat and madness, I've had time to reflect on the 10 years of cruising and 45 years association with the country. This spring was a long cycle of poor weather, mechanical problems but mostly crowded harbours and moorings. Most of my Greek friends and acquaintances have become bitter and cynical, only a few stars retaining their Greek hospitality, and many of my fellow cruisers are equally depressed by the antics of the Eastern European charter scourge.
Is it time to move on?
And for those who talk about mooring up in secluded quite bays. I tried to visit one of our favourites only to find the bay jammed by four charter catamarans actually rafted side by side on anchor.
What do you do?

Keep away from all those over-popular places.

Yours' is entirely the opposite of my experiences during the last couple of months. Lots of friendly Greeks, despite an economy in the doldrums, plenty of very practical help.

I can only second Rivonia's comment.
 

jimbaerselman

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Throughout the Mediterranean, the light weather, well sheltered, "must see" archipelagos are very crowded in peak season. Charter fleets make them their home. Tyro skippers abound. Lots of quayside entertainment.

Economics offers solutions at each end of a spectrum. At one end, raise prices to pay for infrastructure to support the crowds. At the other, leave the crowds to fight for space, leave locals to raise prices until the crowds thin out.

Balearics, Maddalenas, Dalmatia, N Ionian, SW Turkey have all, to varying degrees, "lost their charm" to the crowds.

That leaves a large amount of Mediterranean, with winds more suited to experienced sailors, longer passages between ports/anchorages.

Circle Corsica, or Sardinia, Sicily, or the Peloponnese. Spend a year working around all the islands of the Aegean (north and south), omitting just the one or two which are hostile to visiting leisure boats. Work Turkey, the Sea of Marmara, or go east of Kas and Kalkan.

Come on guys, quit moaning. Things change.
 

grumpygit

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Keep away from all those over-popular places.

Yours' is entirely the opposite of my experiences during the last couple of months. Lots of friendly Greeks, despite an economy in the doldrums, plenty of very practical help.

I can only second Rivonia's comment.

I can only agree with Charles and Rivonia's comments, and this is how we see it.
If you wish to sail the Argolic and Saronic, for sure it will be busy. Here you have all the charter,flotilla,sailing schools and the weekend Athenian traffic.
The eastern block sailor aren't usually about in summer because of the heat, spring and autumn is their favourite time.
This year we have travelled the inside of Evia to the Sporades, Halkidiki, Limnos, Lesvos, Chios and now on Samos. It's been very quiet, hardly seen any other yachts while sailing. Never not been able to get into ports or bays, popular or otherwise. The Greeks are fine with us and if you make the effort they will also in return. The strong pound is giving us more for our money and the Greek prices seem to be as stable as other years, even some tavernas seem to have knocked down their prices without effecting quality or portions. All in all we have never seen it so quiet, having only seen may be three or four British ensigns in weeks, quite a lot of French, few Germans an the odd Italians, may be the tax threat is putting people off.
If it's busy where your are, jump out the goldfish bowl and move on.
 

vyv_cox

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Now we understand the reason for vic's condemnation of the Greek nation. Being ripped off by 50 cents is no small matter! Suggest people get real, it's the same the world over. It has been well known throughout my lifetime that if ordering chips in Caernarfon in Welsh you paid less than if you ordered in English.

It seems to us that there is little change in Greek attitudes in the less popular places. This season we have cruised the Dodecanese, south and central Cyclades, and are now in the Saronic. We have encountered the usual mixture of extremely nice and friendly people and one or two who seemed to be out to make as much as possible. A taverna owner in Kalymnos told us he had to make all his money for the year in two months but provided one of the best and cheapest meals we have eaten all season. Even in Poros we ate well at reasonable prices. We were disappointed in Kea but delighted in Yeoryios. Usual mixture.
 
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I can only agree with Charles and Rivonia's comments, and this is how we see it.
If you wish to sail the Argolic and Saronic, for sure it will be busy. Here you have all the charter,flotilla,sailing schools and the weekend Athenian traffic.
The eastern block sailor aren't usually about in summer because of the heat, spring and autumn is their favourite time.
This year we have travelled the inside of Evia to the Sporades, Halkidiki, Limnos, Lesvos, Chios and now on Samos. It's been very quiet, hardly seen any other yachts while sailing. Never not been able to get into ports or bays, popular or otherwise. The Greeks are fine with us and if you make the effort they will also in return. The strong pound is giving us more for our money and the Greek prices seem to be as stable as other years, even some tavernas seem to have knocked down their prices without effecting quality or portions. All in all we have never seen it so quiet, having only seen may be three or four British ensigns in weeks, quite a lot of French, few Germans an the odd Italians, may be the tax threat is putting people off.
If it's busy where your are, jump out the goldfish bowl and move on.
Was the price drop in tavernas not due to the dropping of the tax on restaurant food of last year? Agree with the rest.
 

[81549]

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Perhaps its not greece that has changed, it is simply that old grumpy brits now have a portal to complain on; this new thing called the interweb. Unlike the days of the empire when they could only spread their misery to a small group, now they can spread their bile across the world! ( and presume that anyone else cares about their pomposity), progress I suppose ; in that, They get to let off steam in a relativley harmless way.

Honestly guys, you are living the dream that most will never attain to, loosen up and get into the groove.

Greece and the greeks , are wonderful. Old grumpy brits need to take a happy pill. The empire has gone.

Sulaire out.
 

sailaboutvic

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Do I understand it right , that you would be happy to go into a pub in England and paid 50 p more for a pint of beer then the guy next to you ?
Three couples six pints , three pound more , if so you must have a lot more money then I have .

I wouldn't say I was grumpy at all , just won't be ripped off by Greeks or any one else .
Little story , to or three years ago I needed a gearbox for the outboard , one Honda dealer say he could order me one but i will have to wait three weeks but he had a second hand one I could have at the same price as a new one , no thank you .
A well known second hand marine place in Nidri , I think most of us know who I mean , need a new end to my pole , found one there , the price she wanted was more then a new one , when I told her she said I could have it for 15 euros cheaper , after I paid and sated to walk away I sew another one , in better condition , it was priced up 9 euros less then I just payed , when I pointed that out to her she told me that's been on the self a lot longer , ok I said I have that one , she wasn't happy .
One last example , the guy in the fuel tanker that some how can get almost 11.5 lts of fuel in a 10lts can . Best example of all .
So maybe some of us have good reason to complain .
I think the really problem lies with people who come out for a few weeks or month , throw there money around liKe no tomorrow and some and I say some Greeks are expecting everyone to do the same .
Some of us have worked hard to save to be able to live this life , we have a budget which we have to keep to , if we want to carry on , other go off cruising for just some weeks then return back to earn more money and some just come out for a week or two to charter , for the last two type of sailor 50 cent here and there isn't a problem , for everyone else it can be .

www.bluewatersailorcroatia.webs.com
 
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Cardo

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Today's exchange at a bakery in Nidri:

Me: "One of those loaves please".
Shopkeeper: "That will be 1.50 euro".
Me: "But you just charged the previous customer 1 euro for exactly the same loaf".
Shopkeeper: "Ah, yes, she is a regular" (i.e. a Greek - no sign the shopkeeper actually knew her).
Me: "Well, can I have the regular price".

At least in the Caribbean shopkeepers have the grace to look slightly guilty when caught out like this.

Don't really see the problem on the bread price - lots of UK pubs, especially destination ones, do 'locals prices' , and so they should.

Unless I've been misinformed, the price of a standard loaf of bread is fixed by the Greek government at €1. There's a few other staple food items that have fixed costs, such as a regular coffee and a basic sandwich. Even Athens airport have to provide these items for the official price, which you can often find at the back of the menu, well hidden away.

If a bakery is charging you more than €1 for a regular loaf, they're breaking the law.

But then, it's not like Greeks are particularly shy to breaking the law.
 
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Perhaps its not greece that has changed, it is simply that old grumpy brits now have a portal to complain on; this new thing called the interweb. Unlike the days of the empire when they could only spread their misery to a small group, now they can spread their bile across the world! ( and presume that anyone else cares about their pomposity), progress I suppose ; in that, They get to let off steam in a relativley harmless way.

Honestly guys, you are living the dream that most will never attain to, loosen up and get into the groove.

Greece and the greeks , are wonderful. Old grumpy brits need to take a happy pill. The empire has gone.

Sulaire out.

What is "pompous" about wanting to be charged the same price as everyone else, may I ask? Isn't that what the EU is supposed to be all about. Why do people like you always want to run their own down. I detest your attitude immensely.
 
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