Is GPS on an EPIRB/PLB Worth the Extra Cost?

[dt4134]

Thinking about maybe buying an EPIRB or PLB.

It's obviously more expensive to buy one with a GPS and cost is an issue.

Does the GPS really give any practical advantage?

As I understand it with the 406MHz EPIRBs one pass of the satellite should give a location to within 2.6 NMiles with about 98% certainty. If I get one with a 121MHz homing beacon (that seems to be all or most of them) I'm not convinced that GPS is worth it.

I would just be looking at coastal cruising around the British Isles and as far as the French coast.

 

[WALLY]

I cant see the point in NOT having the GPS personally. If you have activated it i would imagine you would like to be found as quickly as possible. 2.6NM is a big area when you are potentially looking for a spec in the ocean.

 

[simonfraser]

def with gps, if you need it and you're watching the helicopter on the horizon fly past, again, you'll wonder why you did not order it !

p.s. the coastguard adv. me to have a portable vhf too as a ship was likely to be near in coastal waters.

 

[alan_d]

2.6NM is a big area when you are potentially looking for a spec in the ocean.

2.6NM is not an area, it is a distance. If, as I suspect, it is a radius then the area would be about 21.25 square miles.

I have a PLB with GPS. I reckon that if I needed to use it the time potentially saved by a precise position could make an important difference.

 

[dt4134]

2.6NM is a big area when you are potentially looking for a spec in the ocean.

I believe the 121 MHz homing beacon is for SAR resources to pin down your position when they get within a few miles.

Apparently there is also some loss of precision when transmitting the GPS message so that only gives you +- 125m accuracy anyway.

The cost difference is over £100 for a full EPIRB rather than PLB. Despite owning a boat I still claim I have more sense than money and there's other things I can spend £100 to £150 on rather than something I probably (fingers crossed) won't use.

I expect to be no more than 150NM offshore and 90%+ of the time I'll be within 30M of the UK & Irish coast.

 

[WALLY]

Well don't buy one then!

Dont say we didn't tell you though. Makes me laugh how boat owners will happily spend thousands on fuel,birthing and the boat itself, and then umm and ahhh about £100 which will improve your chances should the worst happen.

 

[SimbaDog]

def with gps, if you need and you're watching the helicopter on the horizon fly past, again, you'll wonder why you did not order

Exactly

 

[simonfraser]

wally, you can get birthed on the NHS

 

[Tranona]

I believe the 121 MHz homing beacon is for SAR resources to pin down your position when they get within a few miles.

Apparently there is also some loss of precision when transmitting the GPS message so that only gives you +- 125m accuracy anyway.

The cost difference is over £100 for a full EPIRB rather than PLB. Despite owning a boat I still claim I have more sense than money and there's other things I can spend £100 to £150 on rather than something I probably (fingers crossed) won't use.

I expect to be no more than 150NM offshore and 90%+ of the time I'll be within 30M of the UK & Irish coast.

Try and find some statistics on how many lives have been saved because of an EPIRB/PLB. Look at the circumstances surrounding how the casualty got into the situation of needing to be rescued and then assess how likely you will be to get in such a situation. If the answer is yes, then you should consider an EPIRBPLB and then it makes sense (as with all purchases) to buy what you consider the best available.

 

[dt4134]

Try and find some statistics on how many lives have been saved because of an EPIRB/PLB. Look at the circumstances surrounding how the casualty got into the situation of needing to be rescued and then assess how likely you will be to get in such a situation. If the answer is yes, then you should consider an EPIRBPLB and then it makes sense (as with all purchases) to buy what you consider the best available.

You're right & I have considered that. Comprehensive statistics don't seem to be readily available so I've had to rely on MAIB reports and similar. OK, maybe that in itself indicates that there's not a huge risk.

Thinking about it, it's likely that it would require quite a major failure to require an EPIRB, such as capsize, rapid flooding (taking out the 12V system before a VHF call can be put out) or violent grounding.

If you take the cases of Hooligan V, Bounder, Ouzo & Shockwave V (Pricewaterhouse Coopers), for example, only Shockwave V's survivors used EPIRBs/PLBs and that was after they'd got ashore. Bounder's crew were rescued after a mobile phone call & the survivors of Hooligan V were saved because they had flares (incl those in the liferaft). Ouzo's crew might well have been saved by a float-free EPIRB.

So yes the risk is low and even in this type of emergency there are alternatives. In fact if anything it seems I'm more at risk racing on other people's boats than cruising my own, which would point in favour of a PLB, but that's another discussion.

But I can't guarantee what's going to happen in the future and I'm not infallible, hence considering an EPIRB/PLB.

It's just when you look into it there doesn't seem to be a clear advantage to paying the extra for GPS on the EPIRB. I was hoping someone had looked into it in a bit more detail than me.

It's not really a matter of spending as much as I can but rather of getting something that is good enough. The difference between GPS & non-GPS for a proper float free EPIRB is significant (yes, PLBs are cheaper but there seems to be a disadvantage that if you drop them they sink which might be a bit inconvenient if it happens whilst you're climbing into the liferaft). Any difference in cost could be spent elsewhere.

 

[neale]

On the McMurdo Fastfind the GPS version is only around £36 more.

 

[rob2]

How many times have I heard that "What price safety?" argument as merchandising for new gear? A liferaft, lifejackets c/w crotch straps, hoods & lights (all extra!), EPIRB, MOB wristbands, PLB, DSC, RORC flares, RTE, etc. All told they cost more than the boat and many become old hat before the battery's flat!

If I understand correctly, an EPIRB/GPS encodes the position in the transmission thus making it immediately available, whereas those without require a manual search for its position, albeit through the satellite system. The difference is reckoned to be up to a matter of hours. However, if you managed to press the red button on a DSC VHF with GPS input, you'll probably achieve the same effect in your cruising area. And yes, the EPIRB transmits a homing signal as well.

Rob.

 

[dt4134]

On the McMurdo Fastfind the GPS version is only around £36 more.

I presume you're talking about the Fastfind 200 & 210 PLBs. The difference is a lot more for float-free EPIRBs such as the McMurdo Smartfind 406.

 

[MonniotC]

The problem seems cloudy because you are trying to answer three questions in one. Break out the individual questions and answer them seperately - like so:

1. Do I need a PLB or an EPIRB at all?
2. If the answer to question 1 is yes, then do I want a PLB or an EPIRB?
3. If the answer to question 1 is yes, then should I pay a bit extra for the GPS version.

Personally, I think that question 3 is a no-brainer.

 

[dt4134]

The problem seems cloudy because you are trying to answer three questions in one. Break out the individual questions and answer them seperately - like so:

1. Do I need a PLB or an EPIRB at all?
2. If the answer to question 1 is yes, then do I want a PLB or an EPIRB?
3. If the answer to question 1 is yes, then should I pay a bit extra for the GPS version.

Personally, I think that question 3 is a no-brainer.

The only question I'm asking is about the real effects of not having GPS on an EPIRB. I have mentioned that I am considering PLB Vs EPIRB but I'm not asking for advice on that (I did say above it was another question).

The research I've done so far seems to indicate that there is no advantage to the GPS unit, so I guess spending extra on the GPS is a no-brainer and the majority view. I'm just disappointed not to have got a knowledgeable response so far.

 

[alan_d]

I am usually singlehanded, and I am sure that the greatest risk I face is going overboard, although I try to minimise this by clipping on when I think it is desirable. The DSC red button would not help me if that happened, and although I carry a waterproof handheld VHF I suspect its range when awash would be short, particularly in my sailing area, and the same would apply to the mobile phone in its waterproof pouch. I think my chances of being picked up would be increased by an accurate GPS position. The homing signal, as I understand it, would only be picked up by SAR vessels or aircraft, while anyone would be able to respond to a lat. & long. broadcast by the coastguard.

In my circumstances I think that having a GPS-enabled PLB is worth the money.

 

[dt4134]

The homing signal, as I understand it, would only be picked up by SAR vessels or aircraft, while anyone would be able to respond to a lat. & long. broadcast by the coastguard.

Thanks, good point. I hadn't thought about other vessels responding rather than the lifeboat or SAR helicopter.

It does seem that the GPS version can only report your position to within 125m. As I understand it this is because of limits in the field size of the messages passed up to the satellite. I presume the 125m figure is derived from the innacuracies due to the position being limited to a tenth of a minute in both Lat & Long.

 

[Lady Campanula]

Get one with a whistle.

If it's good enough for Kate Winslet - for that final 125 yards - it's good enough for me.

 

[Tranona]

You're right & I have considered that. Comprehensive statistics don't seem to be readily available so I've had to rely on MAIB reports and similar. OK, maybe that in itself indicates that there's not a huge risk.

Thinking about it, it's likely that it would require quite a major failure to require an EPIRB, such as capsize, rapid flooding (taking out the 12V system before a VHF call can be put out) or violent grounding.

If you take the cases of Hooligan V, Bounder, Ouzo & Shockwave V (Pricewaterhouse Coopers), for example, only Shockwave V's survivors used EPIRBs/PLBs and that was after they'd got ashore. Bounder's crew were rescued after a mobile phone call & the survivors of Hooligan V were saved because they had flares (incl those in the liferaft). Ouzo's crew might well have been saved by a float-free EPIRB.

So yes the risk is low and even in this type of emergency there are alternatives. In fact if anything it seems I'm more at risk racing on other people's boats than cruising my own, which would point in favour of a PLB, but that's another discussion.

But I can't guarantee what's going to happen in the future and I'm not infallible, hence considering an EPIRB/PLB.

It's just when you look into it there doesn't seem to be a clear advantage to paying the extra for GPS on the EPIRB. I was hoping someone had looked into it in a bit more detail than me.

It's not really a matter of spending as much as I can but rather of getting something that is good enough. The difference between GPS & non-GPS for a proper float free EPIRB is significant (yes, PLBs are cheaper but there seems to be a disadvantage that if you drop them they sink which might be a bit inconvenient if it happens whilst you're climbing into the liferaft). Any difference in cost could be spent elsewhere.

Pleased you have taken my suggestion seriously. You have clearly identified for your type of sailing, an EPIRB/PLB is probably unnecessary, and it therefore comes in the category of a "faith" purchase rather than a "rational" one. As with any activity that involves faith, rational discussion on the pros and cons is probably not helpful. Not only are you never likely to find out but even the vicarious experiences you might look at probably don't help either.

BTW I have an EPIRB (non GPS) and a liferaft - but they were mandated by the charter licence on the boat in Greece. Mind you I did have the LR serviced and keep the EPIRB for my trip back to UK. Will look good on the sale particulars, indicating that I am a well prepared and caring owner!

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Faith purchase Tranona! Consequence purchase maybe. Rational, not at all. Who knows what the statistics are but they may prove that one does not need to buy any safety gear based on a rational conclusion.