Is engine powerfull enough for electric windlass?

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lindsay

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Thinking of replacing a Simpson Lawrence Manual with an electric windless. Chain 30 m of 8mm. According to engine specs, my 1989,or before, Volvo Penta 2002 on a Sadler 29 has output "14v/50 Amp, 700 watts".

How does this jibe with electric windless option offers rated 70 to 100 amps and 750 to 1000 watts?

Will my engine, 30 years old, handle it?

Costs of replacement are so high I do not wish to change from very occasional anchor problems, amongst some 150 anchoring operations a year in the Mediterranean, to permanent issues with a new, in theory labour saving, system which looks good on paper. My DIY skills are modest.

Thanks

PS the Sadler technical forum seems to have disappeared for good.
 
Your engine will cope fine. You wire the windlass to the battery, which supplies power to it when needed. This will discharge the battery a little, and it's recharged when the engine is running. Most people will have the engine running whilst using the windlass, to reduce the drain on the battery and to ensure a decent voltage gets to the windlass.
 
Yes, it will handle it fine. My alternator is rated at 55 amps, windlass 1000 watts. Windlass power comes from my three domestic batteries, 330 Ah. On occasion I will operate the windlass without the engine running, which causes no significant change to battery charge level.
 
lindsay said:
Thinking of replacing a Simpson Lawrence Manual with an electric windless. Chain 30 m of 8mm. According to engine specs, my 1989,or before, Volvo Penta 2002 on a Sadler 29 has output "14v/50 Amp, 700 watts".

How does this jibe with electric windless option offers rated 70 to 100 amps and 750 to 1000 watts?

Will my engine, 30 years old, handle it?

Costs of replacement are so high I do not wish to change from very occasional anchor problems, amongst some 150 anchoring operations a year in the Mediterranean, to permanent issues with a new, in theory labour saving, system which looks good on paper. My DIY skills are modest.

Thanks

PS the Sadler technical forum seems to have disappeared for good.
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Between the engine and the windlass you will have the battery, and that will handle the 100 amps. Best to keep the engine running whilst using the windlass to minimise voltage drop and maximise windlass power.
 
Do you really need an electric windlass? When we had a Sadler 29 we had a plough 25lb anchor that my wife would usually manage, while a friend's wife would deal with a 35-pounder. I should have thought that a 10kg modern anchor would not be too hard to handle, with possibly a small Bruce for lunch stops, which we use. If breaking out is a strain, more judicial use of the engine could be employed. Electric winches are brilliant but do mean more weight and complication.
 
My boat is a 10 meter (33 feet in old money) with a VP 2002, dedicated battery and windlass, works a treat. The engine is always on when using the windlass.
 
Sandy said:
My boat is a 10 meter (33 feet in old money) with a VP 2002, dedicated battery and windlass, works a treat. The engine is always on when using the windlass.
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Is it not a bit sad always to have the engine on, just to lift the anchor? Picture being anchored in a clean, open bay, with a good offshore sailing breeze, and you're ready to get underweigh. It seems a shame to have to start the engine, and run it for the five minutes required for powering the windlass. It's also not good for the engine.

More often than not, I do have the engine running when weighing anchor, but having the windlass supplied from an adequate house battery bank, means that it is optional.
 
NormanS said:
Is it not a bit sad always to have the engine on, just to lift the anchor? Picture being anchored in a clean, open bay, with a good offshore sailing breeze, and you're ready to get underweigh. It seems a shame to have to start the engine, and run it for the five minutes required for powering the windlass. It's also not good for the engine.

More often than not, I do have the engine running when weighing anchor, but having the windlass supplied from an adequate house battery bank, means that it is optional.
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Not sad in the slightest. If I want to lift the anchor by hand I can, but I am usually short or single handed therefor safety of the ship and the crew comes first. So it really depends on location and conditions.

Running the engine also charges the batteries as I don't yet have solar.
 
Engine size is immaterial. It is very seldom that a windlass while take anything like it's maximum rated power. I have a 1500W rated one, most of the time it is reeling in chain (10mm in my case) and only taking ~30A. Only when it is struggling to break-out an exceptionally well dug in anchor does it every come close to taking 100A and that is only for a second or two.
 
The important issue is that you must fit adequately sized cable between the battery and the windlass. Its particularly important to measure the cable run and you should err on the side of fitting oversized cable if in any doubt.
 
Sandy said:
Not sad in the slightest. If I want to lift the anchor by hand I can, but I am usually short or single handed therefor safety of the ship and the crew comes first. So it really depends on location and conditions.

Running the engine also charges the batteries as I don't yet have solar.
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Ah well, each to their own. Some of us learned to sail in boats with no engines, and survived, and later had boats where engine starting was at best, doubtful.:D
 
Minchsailor said:
Engine size is immaterial. It is very seldom that a windlass while take anything like it's maximum rated power. I have a 1500W rated one, most of the time it is reeling in chain (10mm in my case) and only taking ~30A. Only when it is struggling to break-out an exceptionally well dug in anchor does it every come close to taking 100A and that is only for a second or two.
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That's interesting, and reassuring. The best I can do is look at the volts when winching, which I now prefer not to do.
 
I'd wonder about your chain, 30m seems a bit paltry and 8mm well over specified. With 8mm you have a huge margin of safety. Once you buy the windlass it will come with a gypsy to match that chain (yours may not be metric chain? I don't know when imperial disappeared in the UK - but check!!). Once you match whatever you have, or want, you will not want to change the gypsy - they are, very, expensive! Mot windlass will accept a range of gypsies to suit metric and a variety of imperial link sizes, the American have at least 4 different sizes!

edit - clarification - each gypsy will accept one chain size/type/specification - each windlass will accept a number of different gypsies. close edit

If you want to extend the chain, now is a good time to think about it.

Smaller chain will be cheaper, lighter, take up less room (for the same length) and need less power to retrieve. You would need to invest in a decent snubber - as you will, obviously, lose catenary.

Unfortunately taking advice on changing chain is as bad as an anchor thread - but worth a thought.

We changed recently, well a couple of years ago now, to a Maxwell, 1,000 watt with 6mm chain, no issues. self installed. We chose the 1,000 watt - we wanted reserve. Most windlass will accept a variety of motors. Good installation instructions and the local Maxwell office bent over backward to be helpful (though this latter is of little use as our local office is in Brisbane, Oz!)

Jonathan
 
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Norman_E said:
The important issue is that you must fit adequately sized cable between the battery and the windlass. Its particularly important to measure the cable run and you should err on the side of fitting oversized cable if in any doubt.
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If you have the space and the budget, you might want to look fitting a dedicated windlass battery adjacent to the windlass, with very short and fat cables to the windlass and slimmer cabling back to the alternator / charge controller.
 
Scala said:
If you have the space and the budget, you might want to look fitting a dedicated windlass battery adjacent to the windlass, with very short and fat cables to the windlass and slimmer cabling back to the alternator / charge controller.
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That would be my ideal solution, too, though you don't need a huge cable for a short run.

Using the calculator on this page (scroll down a fair bit to get there & don't worry about the equations if they give you a headache :)) https://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/cable-sizing-selection.html , a 10 metre cable run would need to use something like 70 sq mm cable to handle 90 amps (max power for a 1000w windlass + a bit in reserve), with a BIG fuse. A 1m run from a forward battery would only need about 8mm cable, which would also be enough to for the run back to the rest of the system to recharge it. You'd still need the big fuse in the battery-windlass circuit, but the charging circuit would be correspondingly smaller.

You'll need some way of separating this battery from your other batteries. There are all sorts of solutions at all sorts of prices, but you could get away with a car headlamp relay energised from somewhere between the charge warning lamp and it's terminal on the alternator.
 
An alternative ploy if you want to mechanise your anchor winching, is the Winch Rite ......cordless portable battery powered device which slots on like a regular winch handle. I bought one under pressure from SWMBO after I had a heart attack. Seems expensive at £500 but not compared with buying and installing a conventional electric winch and avoids the running of heavy cables. I found it very easy to use with surprisingly little torque kickback ....just kneel on the deck and let the thing press against a knee.
 
WINCHRITE PERHAPS??

I have happily used a Simpson Lawrence manual anchor windlass with a ten inch handle for the last 22 years as a singlehanded liveaboard in the Mediterranean.

At age 83 I still do so, but for around 3 per cent of the time I really wish I had mechanical help. Since this works out to half a dozen times each year, usually when I wish to leave precipitously a dream anchorage which has suddenly become the focus of attention of multiple French or Italian mobos, frequently strapped together, a temporary option of a Winchrite sounds attractive.

Other boats dragging their anchor closeby are another incentive to move......which is a bother in the 20 to 25 gusts you can get in a so called "protected anchorage" against a healthy Mistral.

Does it really, honestly cross my heart, work on the anchor windless as well as what it was designed for, ie sheet winches??

Not doubting you it but sounds too good to be true!!
 
lindsay said:
WINCHRITE PERHAPS??

I have happily used a Simpson Lawrence manual anchor windlass with a ten inch handle for the last 22 years as a singlehanded liveaboard in the Mediterranean.

At age 83 I still do so, but for around 3 per cent of the time I really wish I had mechanical help. Since this works out to half a dozen times each year, usually when I wish to leave precipitously a dream anchorage which has suddenly become the focus of attention of multiple French or Italian mobos, frequently strapped together, a temporary option of a Winchrite sounds attractive.

Other boats dragging their anchor closeby are another incentive to move......which is a bother in the 20 to 25 gusts you can get in a so called "protected anchorage" against a healthy Mistral.

Does it really, honestly cross my heart, work on the anchor windless as well as what it was designed for, ie sheet winches??

Not doubting you it but sounds too good to be true!!
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Well I 've never used it for sheets so I can't make a comparison but I immediately found it very easy to use on an anchor winch. My only proviso is that it would be wise to secure it with a lanyard to prevent it from being lost overboard.
 
Thanks, reeac. I liked your safety recommendation. Can see it easily flying overboard in a moment of excitement. It may well be the answer.
 
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