Is a survey always necessary?

Slow_boat

Slow_boat

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I'm close to buying an 1969 GRP boat that needs cosmetic work, for a very good price. The boat has been re engined and I have been around boats long enough to know that she is basically sound in hull and rig.

Even if she were to have osmosis , which I'm sure she hasn't, I wouldn't be put of at this price. There are things that I'm not sure how to spot, like excess play in prop shaft or rudder bearings.

When I spoke to a surveyor it sounded like he was trying to tell me that his services wouldn't be required as it appears that the engine alone is just about worth the money.

The surveyer in question is not a fly by night merchant, he is a member of the trade bodies, is well qualified and has a very good reputation, both in feedback to his web site and word of mouth.

The surveyor can't fit me in for a couple of weeks, so the question is do I

a; Buy then get a survey for safetys sake?

b; Wait a couple of weeks and risk the boat being sold while I wait?

c; Trust my experience and instincts as I always have before?
 
Sign a contract to buy it "subject to survey", they then can't (shouldn't) sell to anyone else, not your fault the survey takes 2 weeks and if a complete dog you can still legally duck out of the contract or negotiate an even lower price.

Or if you're confident then option 'C'
 
It's really down to your own judgement I think. I bought my wooden boat (similar age to yours) without a survey but had a reasonably knowledgable friend look over her with me. There was lots wrong that we could see, and some that we couldn't, but I doubt a surveyor would have done more than put me off completely. Now that I've finished working on her it's all been worth while and I've just had an excellent survey for insurance. I can't say an initial survey would have helped much at all.

John
 
Make an offer subject to survey

Then if result from your surveyor is truly horrid you can pull out without loss

Or modify your offer downwards

However you do it you will almost certainly need a survey to get insurance on the boat.

Don't let the seller rush you - very few boats sell quickly certanly ones requiring cosmetic work don't.

Make sure that you ask your surveyor to include any specific points you may have dounbts about - like the propshaft. Most pre-purchase surveys leave quite a few things out.

Hope this helps, just been through the procedure, so still fresh in my mind.
 
duncan,
if the boat is v.cheap and I mean by that say a Westerly Centaur for 4k, then the money spent on survey would not be worth it. As you say, you know much of what you need to, so you surely have a mate or two who you can confer with going round kicking the tyres?
If it is that cheap then you could sell it on quite easily also at a knockdown price.

The only downside is finding someone to insure it without a survey. One of todays absolute ripoffs with about as much value add as a home sellers pack.

If it is on the East Coast and you want a second opinion, give me a shout.
 
Depends on the boat size and value....... thats Ins. side.

As to purchase - that's down to you ...

I have bought all my boats based on my own assessment - but then of course I'm a surveyor !! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Let's be honest - 9 x out of 10 - most people have decided they want a boat or not despite survey ... when survey comes up with a problem - they literally start fidgeting - as to how to sort it ... it's all down to love at first sight !!

If the boat you are looking at has an engine that is near the value you are paying ... then ??????

Oh back to Ins. co. - some have a value watershed or others a size before surveys are required. Below that a yard letter stating craft is reasonably maintained can suffice.
 
It would depend on what the value of the boat would be. I looked at two boats, 2-3k and had surveys done.... and both needed considerable amounts of work, so I went cheap. I bought mine, without a survey, for a fraction of the others with the intention of renewing alot of the equipment anyway. So now I have done the work, nearly everything renewed, and still came in cheaper than buying one of the others and still needing to do the work. As for insurance, again depends on the value of the boat. I haven't had to have a survey done for mine and have still had a choice of insurers willing to cover me. If its not too much money and you are as confident in her as you think then go for it. Do the work you know about and then have a survey if you want.... we have to take risks sometimes....
 
I bought my boat without a survey. I was confident that the hull was sound, the rigging will probably end up being replcaed anyway and unless the owner has a receipt for the previous rigging it would probably be hard for a surveyor to say that all is well.

I knew I would replace the whole electrical system and so didn't care about that, and the boat had been recently re-engined so I was happy with the that. I bought it without even seeing the sales, but the seller told me they were crap, so no surprise there.

Basically I was pretty sure that all the major things were ok, and the price was low. Maybe I could have knocked a grand off the asking price armed with a survey, but what would the survey have cost me? The thing is, as Small Boat Champ said, I had already decided it was my boat.

Saying that, I think I will get a survey next time I buy, but I'll probably be spending more.
 
As already mentioned...depends upon the boats value.
Put in an offer "subject to survey" - this is standard procedure anyway - if the buyer doesn't like that there must be something seriously wrong with the boat anyway.
I had my 1979 boat surveyed as I suspected osmosis which was confirmed by surveyor.
Surveyor also found a couple of things I missed (faulty alternator and iffy engine foot)
I insisted on the engine faults being put right buy seller and negotiated the cost of full osmosis treatment off the boat.
Surveyor saved me money and insurance insisted on a survey anyway.
happy hunting
Homa
 
I had a full survey on the Elizabethan 30 I bought, asking price was £12,500. The survey cost just short of £600 and largely as a result of the survey I pushed the price down to £8,000. Now if you are paying the right price and are confident that the vessel is worth it just buy it. The other consequence of the survey is that the insurance company I contacted wants all the jobs done prior to launching, the boat yard are too busy to even give me some prices on three jobs I want them to do and so now I am having her bought back to Brighton by lorry so I can get the work done down here. The slight extra cost of the yard storage is more than offset by the cost of fuel and time taken to get to Gosport and the delay in getting afloat!
 
You'll stuggle to find fully comp insurance without a survey, but you can get third party.

A survey will cost a few, possibly several, hundred pounds. Now add all the work that the surveyor will recommend, just to cover his back - eg The age of the standing rigging can't be confirmed, so it should be changed.

Yea, right. A 1969 boat will be so over-engineered by today's standards that a cruising boat's original rigging would probably be in better nick than a hard raced boat's rigging at one year old. This doesn't matter to the insurance co, who will insist on it being changed.

The gas locker hasn't blown anyone up in the last 37 years, but it doesn't meet current standards, so Mr Surveyor suggests it should be changed. The insurance co will not only insist on that, but that the job's done by a Corgi fitter. More expense.

INHO, you're most unlikely to get the cost of a survey back in any reduction on an already low price, and it's worth considering whether fully comp insurance is worth while on a boat of low value when you consider all the costs involved in getting it
 
[ QUOTE ]
You'll stuggle to find fully comp insurance without a survey, but you can get third party.

[/ QUOTE ]

Disagree.... I haven't had mine surveyed and can get fully comp insurance no problem.... had at least 4 companies that would offer it no questions asked, and at only £150 ish. I would imagine the yacht in question will be able to get fully comp also without a survey, if it is so cheap.

By the way, third party is not always much cheaper, and when comparing different companies third party can be more expensive than fully comp.... just look around before buying.
 
How about giving us a make/model and a rough price. It would probably make up some peoples minds as to what is probably best.... peoples views might even help you to make up your mind whats best to do.
 
I have owned 7 boats and always done the survey myself - the one I did not was a steel boat and the surveyor missed the important things that I found a week later.. He was highly recommended and expensive............

If you have been around boats, know the price is right for the general condition then the survey is a total waste of money which could be used to put right the things that are wrong.

I have always been able to know the price down by saying that if they accept the (low) offer I will not have a survey - works both ways...

The only 'modern' problem is that the insurers will require a survey - so unless the boat has had one in the last 4 years you are going to have to get one... I know of no insurance co that offers competitive rates that will not insist on a survey - they will however accept an insurance survey - where basically the surveyor assures them the boat is sea-worth and priced correctly... Most will accept this... cost around £150 and you can shop around for a cash deal.

Think about it - if you know boats - know that old electronic equipment is going to need replacing - can see the life left in running rigging and sails - no surveyor is going to OK the motor - know the value compared to others on the market of a similar age and size - then what on earth are you giving another guy who has also been around boats and knows how to type out a report several hundred pounds that could be better used repairing or replacing the thing you can see for yourself.

Michael
 
...........and just accept that you will probably miss a few things or things will be in worse condition than you thought (no gtee that a surveyor will spot everything or more likely be able to say much more for many things than "it's an old XXXX, consider replacement", but on the upside you will probably find a few things in better nick than you first thought.
 
Would you and Stemar mind sending me the details of the companies you use for insurance, please. I have not yet taken up the insurance and a friend, in the trade, has said he would sail her as she is!
 
Right, now different companies have different conditions, but I could have fully comp insurance without a survey from:
1) GJW direct
2) Bishop skinner (Axa)
3) St Margarets
4) Pole Star

I had a couple of other quotes, but didn't offer quite the same policies.

All I needed was recent photographs and my word into the condition. I think Pole Star will accept a letter from a boat yard.
 
If you REALLY trusted your instincts you shouldn't have to ask a bunch of complete strangers who have absolutely no knowledge of the prospective boat you're interested in. The price of a new prop shaft and bearings are nothing compared to osmosis treatment and if you're prepared for a worse case scenario what's the problem ?
 
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