simonfraser
Well-Known Member
See poll or comment below 
Is a red top battery man enough to start a KAD 44 ?
- Thread starter simonfraser
- Start date
CLB
Well-Known Member
Do you mean an Optima battery? If so, the various red top versions all seem to offer between 700 and 800 CCA so in theory, yes.
edit to say: Volvo recommend a 140ah battery for starting. The red tops are much smaller in capacity, but capacity is not the best measurement for staring performance.
edit to say: Volvo recommend a 140ah battery for starting. The red tops are much smaller in capacity, but capacity is not the best measurement for staring performance.
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Hoolie
Well-Known Member
What is a red top battery? I think all the batteries I've had have black tops, bar one that was completely red.
In any case, why ask us? It seems you're the only one to have tried it with rather mixed success it would appear
In any case, why ask us? It seems you're the only one to have tried it with rather mixed success it would appear
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VicS
Well-Known Member
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Not sure why you are asking this as the number of people who have direct experience of this you could probably fit on the proverbial head of a pin. Looking at your other threads, suspect you would be the one person who would tick your second box given the problems you have had which stem from having a battery that is not man enough for the job
Perhaps you should take the advice already given and fit a start battery that does have enough capacity and CCA to cope with the load.
Sorry to be so blunt, but it does seem somewhat perverse persisting with a set up that clearly does not work.
Perhaps you should take the advice already given and fit a start battery that does have enough capacity and CCA to cope with the load.
Sorry to be so blunt, but it does seem somewhat perverse persisting with a set up that clearly does not work.
VicS
Well-Known Member
On paper an Optima Red top should do this and if you read all the claims it should be the bees knees. Half a dozen or more reasons are given as to why a "Red top" is better that a conventional starter battery.
matthewriches
Well-Known Member
I used to have a Red Top on my V8 discovery off roader and 2 yellow tops for the front and rear winches, lights, radio, etc. Lasted about 3 years then the post sheared off when the Landy rolled 
Yellow tops I still have today in my transit.
Yellow tops I still have today in my transit.
PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
But the question is skewed. It should be,
We all know the answer to that one.
We could also ask
I think we can all guess what Optima would say about that one.
VicS
Well-Known Member
All we know for ceratin is that it blows a 35 amps fuse... but we'd expect that to happen. Very probably blow a 75 amp fuse too and maybe even a 120 amp one
You expect more than those currents to be drawn from a second battery bank in parallel with the starter battery surely!
IMHO the 120 VSR is too small for the installation anyway, not because of its charge current handling ability but because of the proportion of a very large cranking current that it could be subjected too
The 230 amp one would be a better choice. That could be fitted with a 225 amp fuse if plumbed in with suitable cable .
The real truble is not the battery choice but the rest of the installation esp the vsr.
You insist that the RED Top is unsuitable but so far you have not said why........ Perhaps you could now do that, with hard indisputable facts , not just personal opinions .
Red herring as far as I can see regarding the 30m of chain!
lw395
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure why, but I know of a good handful of people who've found redtop optimas to have very short lives as starter batteries on Land Rovers..
This may be because they are the kind of people who can break things by looking at them from 20 paces.
But I think these batteries need proper 'care and feeding' to give their best.
Rally teams used to love them, but they tend to be good at pampering things when they are not thrashing them within a millimetre of their lives. These days if you're using lead acid you probably have a classic min or Mk1 escort in that world.
From my limited experience of these things, I get the feeling that Optimas have low tolerance for being overcharged and/or neglected. That is a vague picture built largely from apocryphal interweb chat, but I'd welcome hard evidence either way.
Batteries are only new until they've been used. The spec is for a new batery.
Been looking at the bsttery of the car belonging to a young chap in the client's office. It starts the car if it's fully charged and the planets are not too badly aligned. He'd like it to get through the winter, I'd buy a new one....
This may be because they are the kind of people who can break things by looking at them from 20 paces.
But I think these batteries need proper 'care and feeding' to give their best.
Rally teams used to love them, but they tend to be good at pampering things when they are not thrashing them within a millimetre of their lives. These days if you're using lead acid you probably have a classic min or Mk1 escort in that world.
From my limited experience of these things, I get the feeling that Optimas have low tolerance for being overcharged and/or neglected. That is a vague picture built largely from apocryphal interweb chat, but I'd welcome hard evidence either way.
Batteries are only new until they've been used. The spec is for a new batery.
Been looking at the bsttery of the car belonging to a young chap in the client's office. It starts the car if it's fully charged and the planets are not too badly aligned. He'd like it to get through the winter, I'd buy a new one....
lw395
Well-Known Member
In my (slightly simplistic?) view, I like the starter battery to start the engine, a charging system to charge the batteries, and a 'get out of jail free' card to use the house bank to start the engine when the engine battery is flat/broken/old/stolen/?
IF I had a VSR to sort the charging, I'd want it generally 'OFF' when starting.
If I need it 'ON' to start, then I have a problem with the starter battery, either some misdeed of mine has flattened it, or it's buggered and Mr Visa needs to buy me a new one.
What's lacking here is clarity of how the system is supposed to work and what happens if/when 'lifed' parts (i.e. batteries) expire.
The system is not just the hardware but the whole maintenance/operation rigmarole of dragging it through the lifecycle of batteries, winters, refits and day to day use.
It's no good just having something that works while everything is new and shiny, you need to consider how it behaves as things wear out or get broken.
I think there is a cartoon which might translate as a big red light on the chart table lighting up with the caption 'General error: have boat and several credit cards towed to service centre'?
zoidberg
Well-Known Member
You guys have got me worried now.
I'd planned to fit an Optima RedTop*, of sticker-advertised 815 CCA/50Ah, in the fervent belief it would do the start business on a new little Beta 14 more than once or twice.
I was beginning to think I had a handle on the other bits and a charging setup that stood a fair chance of working, from 'shifting the overburden' in here.
But every time I log onto this page, there's another 'Gotcha'!
* Actually, I have 3 of these, and have been wondering what to do with the spare pair. It seems now that I should keep them spare, as backup to the backup....
I'd planned to fit an Optima RedTop*, of sticker-advertised 815 CCA/50Ah, in the fervent belief it would do the start business on a new little Beta 14 more than once or twice.
I was beginning to think I had a handle on the other bits and a charging setup that stood a fair chance of working, from 'shifting the overburden' in here.
But every time I log onto this page, there's another 'Gotcha'!
* Actually, I have 3 of these, and have been wondering what to do with the spare pair. It seems now that I should keep them spare, as backup to the backup....
neil1967
Well-Known Member
I have a Red Top to start my Perkins 4108 - never had a problem. My house bank are Trojans and the Red Top gets the same charging regime as them. Even when I've had extended periods of cranking due to non-battery related engine issues the Red Top has been up to the job.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
You guys have got me worried now.
I'd planned to fit an Optima RedTop*, of sticker-advertised 815 CCA/50Ah, in the fervent belief it would do the start business on a new little Beta 14 more than once or twice.
I was beginning to think I had a handle on the other bits and a charging setup that stood a fair chance of working, from 'shifting the overburden' in here.
But every time I log onto this page, there's another 'Gotcha'!
* Actually, I have 3 of these, and have been wondering what to do with the spare pair. It seems now that I should keep them spare, as backup to the backup....
World of difference between a Beta 14 and a big 3.6l Volvo! Why an Optima rather than a Red Flash though?
PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
I used to have a Red Top on my V8 discovery off roader and 2 yellow tops for the front and rear winches, lights, radio, etc. Lasted about 3 years then the post sheared off when the Landy rolled
Do you have a Red Top to start your large 6cyl Volvo engines in your boat ?
RichardS
N/A
If the particular battery can deliver sufficient instantaneous current to start your engine and its total capacity is appropriate for your usage / charging regime ..... then the answer is yes. If it can't then the answer is no.
It isn't rocket science.
Richard
It isn't rocket science.
Richard
Tranona
Well-Known Member
If the particular battery can deliver sufficient instantaneous current to start your engine and its total capacity is appropriate for your usage / charging regime ..... then the answer is yes. If it can't then the answer is no.
It isn't rocket science.
Richard
not quite so simple in the OPs case if you read his other thread. The battery is maybe adequate IF he kept it solely for engine starting, but seems his boat is wired so that the start battery is connected to the house battery in certain circumstances so when there is a heavy load on it then it also draws on the house bank and the current blows the (inadequate) fuse between the 2. Hope I have summarised this correctly.
So the "Poll" is really not useful as no answers will actually solve his problem - and as I observed earlier doubt anybody else here has that engine/battery setup anyway.
oldgit
Well-Known Member
Perkins M135 @ 6 litres used two batteries in parrallel to start engines
My Volvo Penta 41B @ 3.6 litres also has two batteries in parrallel to start engines
Surely any single battery would struggle with little margin for error on a KAD 44 ?
My Volvo Penta 41B @ 3.6 litres also has two batteries in parrallel to start engines
Surely any single battery would struggle with little margin for error on a KAD 44 ?
RichardS
N/A
But surely I covered that, with knobs on, in my phrase " ...... its total capacity is appropriate for your usage / charging regime."?
Richard
lw395
Well-Known Member
Not really.
Plenty of trucks have a single battery.
The starter motor's spec will probably recommend CCA and Ah.
Of course two batteries may give more margin for the battery aging, state of charge, running other systems while the engine's not running etc. So it may be economic to fit two.