Is a Motor Sailor for me?

[Tim Good]

I've grown up racing higher performance mono hulls and done a little cruising. I also sail with my dad on his lifting keel Beneteau 21.7.

I'm now 30 and looking to get my own boat but my aspirations are to sail up to Norway, Greenland. Although I have no experience with motorsailors, the ones I have seen online appear to be very sturdy and roomy. I'm after something comfortable and easy to handle for a small crew in big sea.

From anyone that has more experience of these types of vessel could you offer me any advice or even suggest some examples I should look at?

Many thanks

Tim

(Bristol)

 

[sarabande]

have a look at the Colvic Watson range. exceedingly tough, lots of space, and they look after you.


Caer Urfa, of this forum, is the historian for CW, and knows a lot about them, and which ones may be for sale.


I found mine very very comfortable and utterly trustworthy - a bit like a Landrover - and just ideal for exploration.

 

[Csail]

I've grown up racing higher performance mono hulls and done a little cruising. I also sail with my dad on his lifting keel Beneteau 21.7.

I'm now 30 and looking to get my own boat but my aspirations are to sail up to Norway, Greenland. Although I have no experience with motorsailors, the ones I have seen online appear to be very sturdy and roomy. I'm after something comfortable and easy to handle for a small crew in big sea.

From anyone that has more experience of these types of vessel could you offer me any advice or even suggest some examples I should look at?

Many thanks

Tim

(Bristol)

Easy just buy my Colvic. Toasty warm, big wheehouse and real engine.
Full spec www.h20-marine.co.uk ignore price

 

[vyv_cox]

Easy just buy my Colvic. Toasty warm, big wheehouse and real engine.
Full spec www.h20-marine.co.uk ignore price

Link doesn't work for me.

 

[Shuggy]

I made the swap from motorsailing to sailing a couple of years ago and have no intention of returning. We had a wooden Miller Fifer 33 and have bought a 70s cruiser with long fin & skeg, but leaving the wood vs GRP aside, here is my view.

Advantages of motorsailer over sailing yacht:

1. Wheelhouse for those cold, wet days
2. Big prop, big torque for easy low revs manoeuvrability
3. 5/6 knots all day long at 1200 revs
4. Safer for young children

Disadvantages (strictly my views only based on my experience):

1. You rely on your engine to get you off a lee shore. That goes, then...
2. Sailing performance is dismal even with the wind abaft the beam
3. Round hull form makes boat roll like a pig
4. Realistically you can't shut the engine off and hope to make much way
5. You can't enter family races
6. You rely on fuel stops
7. Getting from A to B can be boring as there's nothing much to play with in string terms

Some of these will not be an issue for you if you wish to head into Northern climates, and motorsailers mean different things for different people. For example, I'm sure a Fisher 46 with a cruising chute would make some decent way. But a Miller Fifer does not! Ever.

If you enjoy the thrill of sailing fast with the water bubbling under the hull I would suggest you hitch a lift on a couple of motorsailers first. You might want to think about a Deck Saloon yacht once you've tried a proper motorsailer.

 

[Colvic Watson]

Those Miller Fifers were pretty boats - but sailers they never were! With a ketch rig Colvic Watson there's plenty of string to play with, eldest child has the mizzen as her sail and tweaks it constantly so it's better than Mum's mainsail or my genoa. We don't sail as well as a fin keeler, we don't bother going to windward at less than 40 degrees, but away from that we sail far, far more than we motor. There are good motor sailers and bad ones, like there's good fin keelers and bad ones. Overall it works for us because we love sailing, love the safety and love the family atmosphere of the wheelhouse. We miss the cockpit and would like to tack up a river but so far that's all.

 

[Tim Good]

Thanks for the advice guys. I'm assuming that these, being based on fishing vessels, will be fine in relatively big sea?

Also this might sound like a silly question but do you know how strong the hull it? Ice can be an issue up north. Obviously I'd aim not to hit any in the first place.

Tim

 

[RogerG]

Easy just buy my Colvic. Toasty warm, big wheehouse and real engine.
Full spec www.h20-marine.co.uk ignore price

Link doesn't work! H2O marine is .com, but they don't have your boat listed.

Roger

 

[Colvic Watson]

See picture I posted on the Scuttlebut forum this morning.

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=293375

 

[[2574]]

Nauticat

Tim,

There is (what we consider) the ideal half way house which is a Pilot House sailing yacht. Our particular variant is a Nauticat 39 and she does, again in my opinion, sail very well indeed. There is a boat for sale at the moment (not mine I hasten to add) which given your stated objectives might be particularly of interest; see here: http://www.nauticat.com/preowned_nauticats/nauticat_39_from_1995new

Robert

 

[ITH]

Agree with Robih re Nauticats: they are designed and built in Finland, originally for northern waters. Ours is a Nauticat 35 (10.65m waterline), of 1988 vintage. They are well-built, tough, sea-kindly boats. Ours is no racehorse, but with 15 to 20kts of wind no slouch either.

 

[Spuddy]

I met a German couple in their 70s in in the Friesan Isles who had an LM 30. They'd researched the market for their requirements some years ago and settled on this. They usually headed north: Norway, Iceland and Spitzbergen once so similar to your plans. Pointless to sit in a cockpit in those waters so the sheltered steering but decent sailing performance was a good combination. I had the impression the other LMs were more motorsailor but the 30 sailed well, altho no racer. Quite pricey for a boat that size but well designed and thought out.
You've read Roger Taylor's exploits no doubt - he stays indoors for weeks at a time.

 

[Tim Good]

I met a German couple in their 70s in in the Friesan Isles who had an LM 30. They'd researched the market for their requirements some years ago and settled on this. They usually headed north: Norway, Iceland and Spitzbergen once so similar to your plans. Pointless to sit in a cockpit in those waters so the sheltered steering but decent sailing performance was a good combination. I had the impression the other LMs were more motorsailor but the 30 sailed well, altho no racer. Quite pricey for a boat that size but well designed and thought out.
You've read Roger Taylor's exploits no doubt - he stays indoors for weeks at a time.

Spuddy. That looks lovely... however slightly outside my price range for a first boat. I may have to look at something that is going to give me trips around the UK and maybe pop across to Norway and then buy something bigger / better in about 5 years time.

 

[Colvic Watson]

You can pick up a reasonable Colvic Watson 32 for £35,000, or a 34 for about £50,000, better examples command much more, one has just sold for £70,000. Motorsailers range from the Espace - very nice sailing but interesting looks through to the Miller type - lovely looks but fairly awful sailing. You have to trade though, as a variation of fast/big/cheap (choose any two) there's no such thing as a yacht that's:
1. fast
2. roomy
3. solidly built
4. close winded
5. big engine
6. all weather helming.

We chose 2,3,5 & 6. We sacrificed fast sailing but can still sail at 6 knots, we sacrificed close windedness but have lots of sails to play with. Thankfully not eveyone wants our type of boat otherwise we couldn't have afforded it
We do have three sleeping cabins, two saloons and two heads all in 34 feet though, some people would not need that but we love it.

 

[Tim Good]

Well this looks nice

http://yachts.apolloduck.co.uk/feature.phtml?id=205915

 

[jwilson]

I've grown up racing higher performance mono hulls and done a little cruising. I also sail with my dad on his lifting keel Beneteau 21.7.

I'm now 30 and looking to get my own boat but my aspirations are to sail up to Norway, Greenland. Although I have no experience with motorsailors, the ones I have seen online appear to be very sturdy and roomy. I'm after something comfortable and easy to handle for a small crew in big sea.

From anyone that has more experience of these types of vessel could you offer me any advice or even suggest some examples I should look at?

Many thanks

Tim

(Bristol)

The classic small, cheapish, very tough motorsailer that actually sails reasonably well is the Seadog 30 - we don't have one for sale at the moment but look at our archive at http://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/archives/seadog-30/seadog-30.htm and http://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/archives/deep-seadog/deep-seadog.htm for the deeper keel version.

Miller Fifers (the original of the motorsailers derived from North Sea fishing boats) and the Colvic Watsons and Fisher later derivatives are very good boats in their own way but windward performance is fairly dismal unless the engine is running.

You might also look at Hallberg-Rassy Rasmus or Nab 35 designs - see http://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/archives/hr-nab-35/nab35.htm - old enough now to be fairly cheap and yet tough boats. I would regard the Beneteau Evasions as a bit lightly built for serious northern cruising.

 

[E39mad]

These boats provide inside piloting positions but sail better than "traditional" motorsailers:

Westerly Konsort Duo
Westerly Vulcan
Seastream 34 (my choice for value)
Vancouver 34 Pilot (my choice if money not an issue)
Beneteau Evasion range - starts @ 28 feet iirc
Jeanneau Espace range
Hunter 32 Pilot

 

[claymore]

Too Young

At 30 you have to do at least another 10 - 15 years of getting wet and cold before the Honorary Company of Motorsailors will let you in.

 

[Colvic Watson]

Well this looks nice

http://yachts.apolloduck.co.uk/feature.phtml?id=205915

It looks interesting; it's been up for sale for a long time though. I wonder what that enclosed wheelhouse will be like in the med? I know it's reverse camber trawler style but still it's going to be hot!

I disagree with the comment about Colvic Watson's not going to windward, sounds like an assumption rather han experience. We may not be close winded but if you'll agree that 45 degrees is going to windward then we do so very nicely. Colvic Watsons and Fishers were designed from the keel up as sailing yachts whereas the Miller Fifer was a fishing boat design with sails.

 

[Tim Good]

At 30 you have to do at least another 10 - 15 years of getting wet and cold before the Honorary Company of Motorsailors will let you in.

haha indeed... but where I'm going there won't be much honorary company I imagine