is a 28' too small for abow thruster

Re: Adding a bow thruster? Serious question . . .-

Why not spring the boat on or off the pontoon with a warp. This was normal practice for all commercial vessels before the advent of bow thrusters.

My boat has a large turning circle and I have to pivot it in its own length the enter / leave my winter berth.

I use a warp from a midship cleat and motor against it to turn around the finger into my berth and then put the helm over to steer the bow away from the pontoon. This has the effect of pushing the boat's side into the pontoon while I adjust the length of spring warp to position it then moor normally. In strong winds I have used over half throttle to hold against the pontoon / pier.

Not many yachtsmen / boaters have learnt how to use warps as springs, but its a lot cheaper than fitting a thruster. I have a large spring hook on the spring warp that clips onto a 2.4 metre pole so I can attach the spring to a pontoon cleat, or a pier ladder, without leaving the boat, which makes single handed berthing a lot safer.

Have fun.
 
Re: Adding a bow thruster? Serious question . . .-

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Assuming planing boat, of course.....

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Fair point, but as derekh's bio says, Sunseeker Offshore 28 with x2 VP KAD32/DPE, so that the assumption I was working on is thats it very much planing.
 
Re: Adding a bow thruster? Serious question . . .-

Ah okay - its just your reply was to CHuggin's comment who I don't think has a planing boat (and hence his question about the additional drag is quite pertinent).

Rick
 
Re: is a 28\' too small for abow thruster

Sorry about some of the unhelpful replies on here.

Its a macho thing you see I used to berth my x ft long sailing barge with no engine using this piece of string and 2 knitting needles!!

If you feel you can benefit from a bow thruster and have room to fit one do so. If you can't and get into difficulty I hope is some of the macho idiots on here whos boats you damage.

I managed a 36' sailing boat OK , at 38' I decided that on the odd ocassion I would have benefited from a bow thruster. At 43' I decided to go for one. I still get dry mouthed ever time I berth as each time is a unique occurance. I try to do it well and to be honest without using the bow thruster but I do use it as a get out of jail card and if the berthing is not going as I planned/expected either due to more wind or tide I use the bowthruster to correct things and avoid damaging others boat. I then think about what I misjudged so that I know the next time!

Fit one, experience will always improve your berthing but use it when you need to avoid damage to either your own or others boats.
 
Re: is a 28\' too small for abow thruster

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry about some of the unhelpful replies on here.

Its a macho thing you see I used to berth my x ft long sailing barge with no engine using this piece of string and 2 knitting needles!!

(cut)

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I'm not quite sure why you feel the need to apologise for those of us who suggest that he could save a few thousand pounds by learning more about why his boat handles the way it does & figuring out ways to deal with it.

Sure a bow thruster will help, but won't improving our boat handling skills and pre-planning tricky situations help all of us? I know I need to keep practising & learning (just changed engine & prop now turns opposite way to previous setup!)

Mind you, I don't think my finances could cope with the cost of a thruster anyway, so I have to consider alternative solutions! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 
Re: is a 28\' too small for abow thruster

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some of the macho idiots on here

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I'd be pretty embarassed about my boat handling skills if I couldn't manage a 28 footer with twin engines without a bow thruster. But then perhaps I'm just a macho idiot

Get some training - it will give you confidence and much cheaper than fitting a bow thruster
 
Re: is a 28\' too small for abow thruster

Well done for a well balanced and sensible reply.
We've got a thruster on our single outdrive 26ft powerboat.
Actually hardly ever bother with it but it has been of use on the odd occasion when I've been caught out.
OK, with a twin engined boat close quarter manouvering should be easier than with a single. However, if one can afford to fit a thruster and it helps one's confidence (makes boating easier) then there should be no disgrace in so doing.
Some people tend to have their heads in the sand when aids to safe navigation are mentioned /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
 
Re: is a 28\' too small for abow thruster

Don't be embarrassed.

I don't know how my skills match up with others but I did day skipper and yachtmaster and then had additional tuition in berthing in various tide /wind situations on the hamble.

I would not be so arrogant to assume I know how to berth a motorboat planning or otherwise (as a raggie) but I do know that I have berthed in a cross wind so strong that I purposely tried the berthing manoeuvre in open water to see the minimum speed I could manage to turn the boat in and berth and was horrified. I then put most fenders the wrong side and accepted I was berthing in a difficult berth and would get blown onto the adjacent boat.

Now I don't know this persons particular circumstances nor his ability but I am not arrogant enough to think I could immediately do better.

I therefore conclude that if he thinks he would benefit from a bowthruster I would encourage him as 1) he may have a pig of a boat to handle or a difficult berth and 2) one day he may be berthing next to me.

I am all for encouraging people to enjoy sailing, getting the equipment necessary to aid their skills. Not that sailing is an elitist sport and only the most able/profficient should be allowed to participate.

If he is not very able - cut the guy some slack but he may be far more capable than all of us and has a difficult boat/berth!
 
Re: is a 28\' too small for abow thruster

Have you used the technique known as ferry gliding? You use the flow of the river to help you moor up.

Ferry gliding

Hold the boat into the stream and then angle the bow towards the pontoon - you will need to hold station by blips of power to keep the boat stationary, the boat will move sideways on the stream.

The boat used in the sequence is a Bavaria 330 and does not have bow thruster. Frankly it does not need it!! The shots were taken on the upper reaches of the river Hamble.

To get off, you can do the same thing!!

Ferry gliding off the pontoon


You would be better haveing an instructor for a day to teach you the technique, and other ways of getting on and off - be much cheaper than installing a bow thruster. The bow of a Sunseeker of that size is not going to allow you to put a thruster in with any real power.
 
Re: is a 28\' too small for abow thruster

I have been thinking of fitting one myself and have been asking people there opinion's I have found that those who do not have one say waste of time learn to handle the boat etc and those who do have a thruster say best thing since sliced bread, if the maneuver goes tits up its a get out of jail free card. So I would say if you want one and can afford it, get one. Life's to short.
 
Re: is a 28\' too small for abow thruster

I think you've summed up the arguments perfectly, but I'd come to a slightly different conclusion.

I'd say that if you can afford it then pay for a weekends own boat tuition, then decide whether you need a bow-thruster. It's always an eye-opener to see other people's techniques.
 
Re: is a 28\' too small for abow thruster

I should get one if you can afford it.

I bet most of the posters suggesting that they are experts and you should do a course use GPS... Same thing really. It is of course possible to navigate by DR and a sextant but why do it when GPS provides 100% accuracy?

Why not have a bow thruster if the parking is difficult - in the old days people would wait for the tide to turn, slacken whatever, had a big crew and for the most part were not parking in the very close quarters conditions of today. A bow thruster is a very useful tool which will make parking far easier.

The suggestions you do a course are somewhat arrogent. I bet virtually everybody on this forun has had a dodgy moment parking unless they are only fair weather sailors....


Michael
 
Re: is a 28\' too small for abow thruster

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The suggestions you do a course are somewhat arrogent. I bet virtually everybody on this forun has had a dodgy moment parking unless they are only fair weather sailors....


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If my suggestion came across as arrogant then apologies, it wasn't my intention. The suggestion came from my experience doing various courses in 2002 before going off for some delivery work. By then I'd already been boating for 20 years, owned various boats myself and sailed between the East Coast and Spain in all sorts of weather and many many ports. In short, I thought I was pretty experienced and good at parking.

The instructors were a complete revelation to me - it wasn't that they showed how to berth in places that I couldn't, it was that they always had a technique for doing it quickly and easily, with a safe getout clause when things started going wrong.

Best money I ever spent, brought me down to earth a bit, and worth a thousand useful gadgets (though I like them too).
 
Re: is a 28\' too small for abow thruster

I have done the courses up to YM, I do thousands of miles a year in different kinds of boats from small single engine to bigger twin, outboard, sterndrive and shaft, and my opinion is, the bow thruster is well worth getting.

Yes I can do all the things without one that I can with. But it makes the whole thing alot easier and less fraught. You always know that if the bow gets caught by a gust that you wasn't expecting you can get out of trouble. I use it most of the time, not becasue I cant do it without, simply becasue it makes life easier.

I think its a bit like power steering, reversing sensors, Sat Nav, automatic transmission in cars. They all make your life easier even though we can all get by without them.

There are some on the forum that will tell you that if you need one you can't drive a boat. I think that's tosh.

Lets say you are on an alongside pontoon, there is a boat close in front and close behind and you have a slight breeze blowing you on. Getting off without a bow thruster you will probably decide to spring off, great, but why not just put one engine in forward, one in reverse, rudders central and bowthruster away from the pontoon. The boat will just slide straight out sideways.

Small single engined planing hullled outdrive boats I think are the most difficult to handle, as once the bow gets caught by the wind, you have fewer options than with a twin engined boat and therefore are the ones that would most benefit from a bowthruster.

If you have room, go for it.
 
Re: is a 28\' too small for abow thruster

mooring on the inside of a pontoon which is on the outside of a bend on the river with an unhelpfull wind and strong flow due to tide fall. one time in 100 difficulty can be experienced. a boat will not move sideways against flow and wind without some forward or backward movment when using both engines. Give me slack water and the boat can turn in its length and do amazing tricks by using throttles. It is difficult to explain situation in writing but in 20 years boating I have had no dings and would like to continue so thus my intrest in the truster. Thanks for all the replies but what I know for sure the £1400 plus vat quoted for installation is a but steep.
 
Re: is a 28\' too small for abow thruster

Save ya money. Tips as above! Use a mid-ship spring/line onto a cleat and then short as pos. one person can do it and there is only so far the bow or stern will be able to go! (put a fender up front and one on the aft quarter. with mid-ship line made off drive forward and the bow will kick in and stern out, tie bow line off. drive aft and make stern line off.
 
Re: is a 28\' too small for abow thruster

£1400 plus vat quoted for installation is a but steep

Ouch!

If you're a bit handy, it's a possibility for DIY. PBO (YM?) did an article on how a while back. From memory it's mainly a question of taking your time and esuring brain is engaged before putting drill into gear.

Only you can decide if it's worth the money. IMHO, it should be a supplement to skill, rather than a replacement, though, at risk of upsetting the master mariners who never get caught out, it's a lot harder to manouvre a planing stinkpot at low speed than a ragboat. Even at low speed, Jissel usually goes more or less where I point her, but there've been times, especially with a bit of breeze, when I would have been glad of a thruster. I hate to think what it must be like with all that windage and nothing in the water.
 
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