Iron fastened larch boat.

[burgundyben]

Somewhere in my future is a displacement single screw motorboat, most probably an old MFV.

I see many of them are larch planked and iron fastened, I worry that larch may have rotted an a new plank be needed, but is it feasible to remove iron fastenings? They are nails? How rusted away might they be?

Is such a boat a ticking bomb?

There's a big difference between a teak on oak bronze fastened boat with a lead keel and a larch on oak iron fastened iron keeled boat, big deal?

 

[ccscott49]

Ben,
Boats that are iron fastened were built down to a price, they were not expected to last forever, fishing boats etc. As opposed to a boat built as a yacht. Iron fastenings even galvanised iron fastenings do rust and leave stains on the hull, that said they are usually iron "dumps" and are large in section, so unlikely to rot away completely. They can be removed and a plank replaced, its easy and probably better to just replace the iron dumps with new galvanised iron dumps. You cannot stop them rusting, so dont even try. If going for an MFV type boat, avoid like the plague ones that are "admiralty" MFV, they were really thrown together, often on the beach and were only built to last the war! Even MFV's built as yachts, often have iron fastenings, Herd and McKenzie for sure. Be very careful, a nail sick boat can be a nightmare, you will need a wooden boat surveyor who really knows his stuff. Good luck.

 

[Kukri]

Very difficult subject; it is worth keeping in mind that just about all British working boats, from smacks to barges to Bristol Channel pilot skiffs, were iron fastened, and some of them have lasted a long time.

 

[Woodlouse]

Very difficult subject; it is worth keeping in mind that just about all British working boats, from smacks to barges to Bristol Channel pilot skiffs, were iron fastened, and some of them have lasted a long time.

Very few of them without significant investment though.

I would be wary of buying an MFV. Get a very through survey done and pick one where some other poor sod has done the majority of the work already.

 

[mtb]

I had a danish built trawler larch on oak some of the nails were as good as the day they were driven in but I recone they'd had lead paint over em as well plus attention to detail re caps meant the nails were ok
There was some one in scotland making nails by hand, they need to be right you'd need the right equipment to drive em in

 

[NormanS]

I had a 60 ft converted Scottish fishing boat for more than 30 years. She was built just before the war, by Herd and Mackenzie, larch on oak, except for the top four strakes, which were oak. She was fastened with enormously heavy 5" galvanised square cut nails. Over the years, I had to renew a few sections of planking. It was mostly impossible to draw the nails. It was easier just to cut them off flush, and slightly offset the new nails. If anyone is interested, I have a few kg of nails in my shed.

 

[burgundyben]

I had a danish built trawler larch on oak some of the nails were as good as the day they were driven in but I recone they'd had lead paint over em as well plus attention to detail re caps meant the nails were ok
There was some one in scotland making nails by hand, they need to be right you'd need the right equipment to drive em in

Danbrit. Remember your posts at the time.

Thanks all, very informative.

 

[mtb]

blimey ben
you have a good memory
theres a 40 odd foot hull been left out for ten years or more at fosdyke I bet they'd sell it cheap to get it moved, the shape is just right for conversion to a ketch rig

 

[burgundyben]

blimey ben
you have a good memory
theres a 40 odd foot hull been left out for ten years or more at fosdyke I bet they'd sell it cheap to get it moved, the shape is just right for conversion to a ketch rig

Looking around some boatyards it seems pretty clear to me that such major projects have a very high failure rate, I don't plan to walk into that trap.

I guess the main thing I worry about with a Larch/iron fastened job is the structural integrity, it'll sink like a stone if is pops a planks off.

The bigger displacement boat in my future is likely to have been built as a yacht, teak planked and bronze fastened.

 

[Kukri]

The bigger displacement boat in my future is likely to have been built as a yacht, teak planked and bronze fastened.

A Silver, then...?

 

[Scarron]

No bigger I reckon, I can think of a certain teak on steel TSDY that might suit..

 

[slowboat]

We purchased a 37’ iron fastened Miller Fifer 4 years ago. Not regretted it despite 3 years restoration. When first purchased it was assumed to be Larch on oak, later turned out to be iroko on oak. Professional boat builder feedback on larch was good, it has immense longitudinal strength.
Boat had odd rust streaks when purchased, caused by deck leaks. After repairing the decks, I removed the plugs as required killed the rust and glued in new plugs. Re wastage, I needed to take out a plank, to do so I cut round the nails removed the plank, hit the nail on the head and then they came out. There was no wastage on the 40 year old nails in the oak frame. It was suggested you would double the fastenings in time if required not remove them.
There appears to be a lot of pessimism around about iron fastened boats. I guess it depends on the quality of the nail used. Be interesting to see what mine would be like at 80 years.
If tempted, get a good surveyor and boat builder. Read the report and then get a verbal opinion as to what they think. Don’t listen to the pessimists in boatyards, that is why there are so many abandoned projects I recon, people lose interest from constant negative feedback, most of which appears ill-informed, however well intentioned it maybe.
Being close to the boat and dedicating the correct amount of maintenance time helps. The hull of mine was in good condition so the renovation was carried out in a mud berth, not drying out on a hard.
120 hours cruising this year… not bad for a 45 year old boat.

 

[burgundyben]

We purchased a 37’ iron fastened Miller Fifer 4 years ago. Not regretted it despite 3 years restoration. When first purchased it was assumed to be Larch on oak, later turned out to be iroko on oak. Professional boat builder feedback on larch was good, it has immense longitudinal strength.
Boat had odd rust streaks when purchased, caused by deck leaks. After repairing the decks, I removed the plugs as required killed the rust and glued in new plugs. Re wastage, I needed to take out a plank, to do so I cut round the nails removed the plank, hit the nail on the head and then they came out. There was no wastage on the 40 year old nails in the oak frame. It was suggested you would double the fastenings in time if required not remove them.
There appears to be a lot of pessimism around about iron fastened boats. I guess it depends on the quality of the nail used. Be interesting to see what mine would be like at 80 years.
If tempted, get a good surveyor and boat builder. Read the report and then get a verbal opinion as to what they think. Don’t listen to the pessimists in boatyards, that is why there are so many abandoned projects I recon, people lose interest from constant negative feedback, most of which appears ill-informed, however well intentioned it maybe.
Being close to the boat and dedicating the correct amount of maintenance time helps. The hull of mine was in good condition so the renovation was carried out in a mud berth, not drying out on a hard.
120 hours cruising this year… not bad for a 45 year old boat.

That is a fantastic reply to read.

I've been a wooden boat owner for 13 years and loved every minute of it, your point about the constant negativity is valid, but I love it.