Seastoke
Well-Known Member
So i have been looking at the bavaria virtesse which i think comes with ips so how do they compere v shafts or legs ie reliability ,maintenance costs etc all comments welcome
Ips v legs v shafts
- Thread starter Seastoke
- Start date
Whitelighter
Well-Known Member
*opens large bag of crisps, bottle of wine and gets comfortable*
Seastoke
Well-Known Member
hi jez i should of been more specific maybe ,i dont know if all the bavaria virtesse are IPS am i right in saying that ips is the drive that comes from the bottom of the stern to a twin prop
BruceK
Well-Known Member
I might join you for this one. Just need OldGit to check in for balance.
P4Paul
Well-Known Member
Options available on the Virtess,
2x Volvo Penta D6-370 EVC (370 PS) on outdrives
2x Volvo Penta D6-400 EVC (400 PS) on outdrives
or
2x Volvo Penta IPS500 D6-370 (370 PS)
2x Volvo Penta IPS600 D6-435 (435 PS)
Seastoke
Well-Known Member
so has ips been around long enough to know how good they are v legs
P4Paul
Well-Known Member
I am afraid I don't have enough experience of the running of IPS to make a educated comparison with legs.
Nigelpickin
Well-Known Member
So, we've had both OD and PODS
First consideration is the length/weight of the boat, <40' and out drives are perfect, you get a sportier performance as the legs cut in further back and give you tighter turning, more drama, if you like.
PODS on our current boat and otherS that I have been on are not set up for excitement; more considered swanning around.
If you are looking at boats with EVC out drives and joystick then I would say that the performance versus PODS with the stick is not nearly as effective, especially if you are going beyond 40'. Too much boat to haul around from way back.
I've managed to keep Breaking Bad steady and then go sideways against a 35knt gale but on our 390's with the Cummins set up, 25kts would send the computer into panic mode if too much stress was applied.
Reliability, well some Rodmans were being fitted with PODS a decade ago, I know of one boat, and there don't seem to be any more reported problems than you would get versus shaft/v/jet or whatever; properly maintained, (and I think PODS will be slightly more expensive to service and find engineers with competence to do so), they will be fine.
FWIW my D6 435's are budgeted for 2.5k per year on Ann's spreadsheet; I think that's about right, previous boat came in at 30% less than that.
If you are looking at the virtess 420, I think it will fly with the D6 option and if running costs were not the main consideration I would go for that every day.
Also fair to say from my experience is that the burn rate on PODS will be better.
Final note, if you are looking for a boat anywhere near either Portifinos or Mapisms location, stay well clear; they're all laid up, falling apart or sunk from what I understand
Good luck
oldgit
Well-Known Member
Just cancelling all my appointments for the next few days..OK... ready when you are.
If you need any secondhand spares for your IPS it is alleged that Coastal Rides have a number of complete units and parts salvaged from various VP dealers who have gone to the wall,available at very good prices.
Remind me what did happen to rival system ?
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benjenbav
Well-Known Member
My 2c, fwiw.
Shafts: low maintenance option giving "planted in the water feel". Takes up more space in the middle of the boat unless you have a V drive set-up. Uses more fuel than other systems. Not available on this model anyway.
Outdrives: Engines well-aft so space amidships is freed up. Relatively economical. As Nigelpickin says, with something of this size there may be a concern having the power delivery from a point which is aft of the boat's stern. Many expensive and delicate bits are being dangled in salt water with a thin aluminium casing and a perishable seal for protection. Expect considerable bills as the outdrives age.
IPS: (I have no personal experience here but nevertheless have effortlessly formed an opinion
) Great control for the reasons Nigelpickin states: power delivery centred around the pivot-point; vectoring control via joystick and clever software. As with outdrives the location of the engines will be intended to free up space amidships. Expect similar fuel economy to outdrives. Also, as with outdrives, some very expensive and delicate bits are being suspended in saltwater. Finally, allegedly they are designed to shear if you hit something hard, the theory being to leave you afloat, albeit without propulsion...
Shafts: low maintenance option giving "planted in the water feel". Takes up more space in the middle of the boat unless you have a V drive set-up. Uses more fuel than other systems. Not available on this model anyway.
Outdrives: Engines well-aft so space amidships is freed up. Relatively economical. As Nigelpickin says, with something of this size there may be a concern having the power delivery from a point which is aft of the boat's stern. Many expensive and delicate bits are being dangled in salt water with a thin aluminium casing and a perishable seal for protection. Expect considerable bills as the outdrives age.
IPS: (I have no personal experience here but nevertheless have effortlessly formed an opinion
) Great control for the reasons Nigelpickin states: power delivery centred around the pivot-point; vectoring control via joystick and clever software. As with outdrives the location of the engines will be intended to free up space amidships. Expect similar fuel economy to outdrives. Also, as with outdrives, some very expensive and delicate bits are being suspended in saltwater. Finally, allegedly they are designed to shear if you hit something hard, the theory being to leave you afloat, albeit without propulsion...
MapisM
Well-Known Member
Better than outdrives? Naaah...
Oh, and re. sinking boats around here, we don't have many left I'm afraid.
Most have already been sold to British forumites, you know...
Nigelpickin
Well-Known Member
My 2c, fwiw.
Shafts: low maintenance option giving "planted in the water feel". Takes up more space in the middle of the boat unless you have a V drive set-up. Uses more fuel than other systems. Not available on this model anyway.
Outdrives: Engines well-aft so space amidships is freed up. Relatively economical. As Nigelpickin says, with something of this size there may be a concern having the power delivery from a point which is aft of the boat's stern. Many expensive and delicate bits are being dangled in salt water with a thin aluminium casing and a perishable seal for protection. Expect considerable bills as the outdrives age.
IPS: (I have no personal experience here but nevertheless have effortlessly formed an opinion
Definitely designed to shear off on substantial impact. The only close to first hand conversation I've had was regarding an IPS PODS boat that ran over a sandbank @ Arcachon when they floated the boat on the tide the drives were all OK; so I think it'll take some doing to separate. But of course, there no denying that having things dangling from beneath the hull and propellers facing the 'wrong' way is counter intuitive....I've managed to get over this but of course some may struggle
I took a pot line in Morbihan in 2014, pots dragged for about 20 seconds and then bobbed back up, boat lifted and checked and again all fine.
Just run mine from Southampton to Falmouth at 22.5 Kts with a 1mpg burn rate; don't know how that compares to a shaft boat of a similar size/weight....
Firefly625
Well-Known Member
if it wasn't for outdrives not sure this forum would exist....
Seastoke
Well-Known Member
so excuse my novice but is the ips the unit under the boat and what is pods joystick is easy
Portofino
Well-Known Member
Yes that's right the props dangle facing forward ready to hit things and cost £££ like this
The yard will need £££ to lift and /or you could spend your boating time filling in ins claim forms ?
Shark infested waters IPS v OD v shafts ---- hey how about Arnesons to eat up £££ -may as well have a tripple
It's all relative ----
Nigelpickin
Well-Known Member
IPS = itegrated propulsion system, it's the clever black box stuff that communicates between the engine, POD, EVC and Joystick.
It's Volvo Penta brand and the equivalent Mercruiser Cummins would be Zeuss for IPS and Smartcraft for EVC...if that makes sense.
PODs are the shark catchers that sit below the boat, facing forward and crucially, set under the hull, not hanging off the back. Not sure where PODs the generic term originated but one of the better informed or more Google happy guys may chip in, thinks it's a hybrid word not an acronym? Can't remember though.
The D6 435 that I've got can be, I believe, non IPS and thus used on shaft drives but I'm really not sure about such things.....
Not sure if that answers the question.
MapisM
Well-Known Member
Since the answer to the last part of your question isn't so obvious from the pics Portofino posted:
The two IPS pods in his first pic can rotate independently, and by combining their rotation/thrust, you can move the boat in any direction without even needing a bow thruster.
But since for any given direction/speed it would be tricky to find manually the right combination of angle and thrust of each IPS, there is an electronic box taking care of that.
Once this is tuned for the specific behaviour of each hull, all you have to do is move a joystick in the direction where you want to go, and as "strongly" as you want the boat to react.
Doesn't that sound good? In fact, that's by far the major selling point of these things, particularly among first time boaters.
Otoh, the fact that it takes decimal numbers to measure their market share among experienced boaters is also something to bear in mind...
MapisM
Well-Known Member
Pah, anyone mad enough to buy a P108 who doesn't go for the full monty (with a turbine in the middle, propelling a waterjet) ain't worth a lot of attention...
Seastoke
Well-Known Member
So, we've had both OD and PODS
First consideration is the length/weight of the boat, <40' and out drives are perfect, you get a sportier performance as the legs cut in further back and give you tighter turning, more drama, if you like.
PODS on our current boat and otherS that I have been on are not set up for excitement; more considered swanning around.
If you are looking at boats with EVC out drives and joystick then I would say that the performance versus PODS with the stick is not nearly as effective, especially if you are going beyond 40'. Too much boat to haul around from way back.
I've managed to keep Breaking Bad steady and then go sideways against a 35knt gale but on our 390's with the Cummins set up, 25kts would send the computer into panic mode if too much stress was applied.
Reliability, well some Rodmans were being fitted with PODS a decade ago, I know of one boat, and there don't seem to be any more reported problems than you would get versus shaft/v/jet or whatever; properly maintained, (and I think PODS will be slightly more expensive to service and find engineers with competence to do so), they will be fine.
FWIW my D6 435's are budgeted for 2.5k per year on Ann's spreadsheet; I think that's about right, previous boat came in at 30% less than that.
If you are looking at the virtess 420, I think it will fly with the D6 option and if running costs were not the main consideration I would go for that every day.
Also fair to say from my experience is that the burn rate on PODS will be better.
Final note, if you are looking for a boat anywhere near either Portifinos or Mapisms location, stay well clear; they're all laid up, falling apart or sunk from what I understand
Good luck
£2.5k seems a lot can u break down pls
MapisM
Well-Known Member
LOL, and that's just the budget. You don't want to see the actual figures....