International VC offshore paint with Teflon

[Engage]

This AF paint comes as a tin of liquid and a bag of powder. I suspect the powder is the Teflon but I could do with knowing if after mixing the two, what the life of the paint would be. Would I be able to keep it in that form for a day or two? Presumably it does not come ready mixed for a reason.
Cheers.

 

[Graham66]

No, the powder is copper Teflon is only "pixie dust"!!! use within days not weeks and ensure you mix it well with a square mixing stick , not a screw driver!!

 

[VicS]

There is no suggestion that the shelf life is shortened once the power is added on the Product data sheet Normally 2 years
No hint anywhere what the powder is either.

What colour is the powder?

 

[Engage]

The powder is copper colour but aren't other copper powder paints pre-mixed. I don't know. As long as it's not some sort of catalyst that sets the paint. Today at about 1630h ish I called my chandler who told me he had mixed and used the next day without problem but could not give much more technical info. I then called International Paints in Gateshead where they make it (apparently) they told me to call the office in Hampshire. "Thank you far calling - our offices are closed blah blah..." Bugger! It's not cheap this paint and I will wring out the tin if need be.

 

[Skyva_2]

Used this for some years and I am sure the powder is copper. It does not come premixed as the copper settles. After you mix it make sure the can is agitated or mixed frequently to keep the copper dispersed.

 

[VicS]

[ QUOTE ]
The powder is copper colour

[/ QUOTE ] Almost certainly cuprous oxide then. That's the form in which the copper is used in copper based antifouling paint except for white and other light colours where cuprous thiocyanate is used.
As you say is normally premixed. It does tend to settle which is why normally the paint has to be kept well stirred during use.

 

[Graham66]

Shelf life means SHELF life not mixed life, the copper settles to the bottom of the tin and it is very difficult to get the copper back into suspension .
possibly the best way of describing it is that the powder (the bit the fouling doesnt like) solidifies on the base of the can and depending on conditions gets harder with time but the medium (liquid paint) used for getting it onto the hull will remain liquid but not a very effective antifouling unless mixed for more time than the average person would be prepared to spend

 

[VicS]

[ QUOTE ]
Shelf life means SHELF life not mixed life

[/ QUOTE ] It usually also means unopened and is why I expected the data sheet to give some indication of the useful life when mixed, but it doesn't. Conventional AFs always seem to be usable a year later so the question as to whether VC Offshore is once mixed remains unanswered.

 

[Graham66]

Old Chemists never die, they just fail to react

No they just get thicker!!!!

 

[VicS]

[ QUOTE ]
Old Chemists never die, they just fail to react

No they just get thicker!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]


Perhaps you would like to explain that remark, apologize for it or retract it. Or would you prefer that I just refer your post to the moderators.

I should point out that my attention has been drawn to it by another forum user who considers it "out of order" and "rude".

If you are just in a foul and grumpy mood this morning go and kick shite out of the neighbour's dog, don't start hurling insults, that contribute nothing to the topic, at other forum users.

 

[Graham66]

we are all here to try and help other forumites and this is what I have been trying to do with this post
I will try to simplify even further what I believe I have said. You tell us the product has a shelf life of 2years (maybe a lot longer).
Once opened it is recommend the product should be used immediately
the reason for this is because of settlement of the copper powder.
However if you had antifouled the boat and the boat wasnt to be launched for say 10 /12 days and shore pads needed to be touched up prior to launching, the product would still be useable and should work as described
what I dont think would be recommended is that a tin is mixed this year and then put away till next, and I have explained why.
As cost seems to be the driving force behind this question if you arent going to use a full tin, use parts of a tin 1/2 ,1/4 and divide the copper powder at the same rate then the remainder could be kept for the next application, making sure that the can is well sealed and the copper powder kept dry.
Dont worry about the remarks, i am sure you have broader shoulders than allow my comments to upset you
we all seem to get thicker in one form or another as we get older, aye, me included!!

 

[VicS]

I quoted what the Product data sheet on International Yachtpaint's website said about shelf life, namely 2 years. I provided a link to that data sheet

I also said I could find no indication of a reduced shelf life once mixed. I still cant!
Pot lives are normally given for two component products and although the VC product is presumably different in as much that it does not cure by chemical reaction between the components I thought there might be some guidance on the useful life of the mixed product. There isn't!

You seem to be quoting from some other source that on the one hand states that the mixed product must be used "immediately" but on the other implies that it is still usable 10 or 12 days later!
What document are you quoting from? Can you post a link to it?

Nobody is actually recommending that a tin is mixed one year and put away until the next. The question is whether mixed but unused paint can be saved from one year to the next in the same way that many, I suspect, do with conventional antifouling.

You have given the reasons why you think it should not be kept although you have not explained why this should apply more particularly to this product than to others.
Nobody i am sure disputes that any AF kept from one year to the next needs a good bit of stirring to remix the copper oxide.

So then do share with us the source of your information. Once we all know all the facts we can make a reasoned judgement on the matter.

It is interesting to note that the Data sheet says:
GENERAL INFORMATION:
Exposure to air and extremes of temperature should be avoided. For the full shelf life of VC Offshore with Teflon to be realised ensure that between use the container is firmly closed and the temperature is between 5°C/40°F and 35°C/95°F. Keep out of direct sunlight.

The references to "full shelf life and "between use" suggests to me that the mixed product can be kept provided it is stored in the way stipulated.

Finally let me say it is not your place to make any assumptions about the breadth of my shoulders or whether insults will up set me or not. Such abusive remarks are against the forum rules which you agreed to observe when you joined. I suggest you re-read them.!
You have of course done exactly what I expected and arrogantly tried to defend your actions!

 

[savageseadog]

My experience of the VCm product which is similar is that the shelf life unmixed is forever, although the tin needs a really good stir. Once mixed it seems to precipitate and harden and become unusable within a few days.

 

[Graham66]

I worked for International Yacht Paints for 25 years

 

[VicS]

[ QUOTE ]
I worked for International Yacht Paints for 25 years

[/ QUOTE ] So you will have no difficulty in telling us where we can find the information you quote and explaining why it is not in the product data sheet.

 

[Pasarell]

The facts Grajan set out are correct even if the explanation and subsequent discussion could have been better!
VC Offshore will be suitable for later use if kept sealed but trying to get the copper powder back into suspension will be very difficult.
The powder is pure(ish) copper but there will be some oxidation of the surface I'm sure during packing and storage. Doesn't matter too much as it will oxidise when used and go on to form other more complex compounds when immersed.

 

[smth448]

I have used VC Offshore for a few years and have found that if you do not use it straight away once the copper powder has been mixed in it doesn't work as anti fouling. I think the stuff settles to the bottom of the tin where it solidifies and no amount of stirring will bring it back to life.
Practical eveidenxce of this is that I saved some to do under the pads and the bottom of the keel when the boat was launched. Every time we scrub those areas have patches of barnacles happily growing on them. At least the teflon makes them easy to get off with the pressure washer.
What I am going to do next year is only mix up what is needed each day. Shame my boat needs about .75 of a tin for each coat!