internal partion materials for shower

[vas]

as per my rebuilt/refit thread on MiToS, due to fcking freezing cold weather and winds, I'm more designing at home by the fireplace rather than being out there working...
Many issues are already sorted, however one of the things that I'm not at all sure about and I want your views is the material/construction method for the new partitions that I'll put up to create the two heads. Since the rooms are going to be quite tight, I'll be using most of the space as a shower as well, so "walls" have to be waterproof to an extent.

Existing partitions (cannot be used as heads are relocated) seemed to employ some sort of laminate on top of 15mm marine ply, all that from 1975.
Now, material tech has moved on a fair bit, however I'm on a tight(ish) budget so cannot go high tech and silly money. Options I'm considering are:

• 25mm marine ply painted the absolute cheapie solution...
• 15mm marine ply with ceramic pool tiles (using good quality flex glues and mapei seam sealant)
• timber frame with aluminium-rubber sandwitch panel 2mm thick (used extensively in shop front redecorations) on both sides for waterproofing. Comes in a few colours typically a light grey which suits me fine. Cheapish solution
• corian(esque) material on ply again most expensive option, can integrate washbasins on tight spots on them
• vacelite (sp?) 6-8mm extremely tough, hard wearing, waterproof panels used for kitchen furniture doors. Usually in dark brownish colours - at least that's what I can find easily down here. Bl00dy expensive, v.heavy, v.hard to work with, will also need a framework and glued/bolted on
• full size mirror on frame. dead easy to put together, a bitch to clean, afraid that possible flexing will break them, no soudproofing

as always open to suggestions!

cheers

Vassilis

 

[BartW]

I'm intrigued from which material / procedure, the walls in the Canados showers are made,
after 20y they still are impeccable.

They seem to be marine plywood with a formica layer just like kitchen furniture, but I've never in my live seen a kitchen (or bathroom /moisture ) that looks so unaffected after 20y.

Will asc the Canados guy when I meet him hopefully next thursday,
thats the plan for arrival in Rome with BA if the weather prediction remains as it is right now.

another option is "trespa" I'll try to find the right word / name,
this material is very hard, synthetic, and used fe for locker rooms near swimming pools, available in different collors

 

[vas]

I'm intrigued from which material / procedure, the walls in the Canados showers are made,
after 20y they still are impeccable.

They seem to be marine plywood with a formica layer just like kitchen furniture, but I've never in my live seen a kitchen (or bathroom /moisture ) that looks so unaffected after 20y.

hm, sounds similar to what I have, but 35years have been a bit too much as it's starting to peel off the edges in places...

Will asc the Canados guy when I meet him hopefully next thursday,
thats the plan for arrival in Rome with BA if the weather prediction remains as it is right now.

another option is "trespa" I'll try to find the right word / name,
this material is very hard, synthetic, and used fe for locker rooms near swimming pools, available in different collors

thanks Bart,

trespa I think is similar/same to the vacelite I mentioned above. However, I don't know if I can get it large enough sheets to do my panels with it.
Also if it's around 8 mm means I need two one on each side (on the wall separating the two heads/showers) and some sort of sound insulation in between on a frame- dow/styrofoam type of material probably wont cut it.

will investigate further with some colleagues that have used it in shop refurbs...

cheers

V.

 

[jfm]

In case it is useful info V, FL use 15mm marine ply with a veneer of plastic. Modern stuff, thin veneer, not formica type. Mine have a sparkly metallic "pearlescent" look to the white skin. Has to be white not cream, else looks like old toe nails. Internal corners done with small bead of white silicone; external 90 deg forners done with angle wood profile; butt joins covered with 3mmx12mm white D plastic extrusion glued on with silicone. Ceiling is same material but white matt plastic veneer. All in pics below. You can do small areas in 20x20mm mosaics (Bisazza) to jazz things up a bit if you want. Eg the below are Bisazza "nefertiti", with brown grout. Floor is 12 or 15mm marine ply, 8x4 sheets, with 3mm veneer of teak blocks, varnished slightly non slip mat varnish (really nice product)

 

[Bojangles]

Rearo laminates in Glasgow will supply 12mm marine ply laminated panels, loads of decors and sold in 8 x 4 sheets or smaller, they can do tongue and grooved and any bespoke sizes you require. You need to consider access issues when using ceiling to floor panels as they could be impossible to position in place if working in a restricted space. To counteract this, the t & g panels could be used if you have them cut into slimmer pieces

http://www.rearo.co.uk/domestic/selkie-board

No connection with this firm other that having used them for shower enclosures for about 10 years with no problems

 

[gljnr1983]

Rearo laminates in Glasgow will supply 12mm marine ply laminated panels, loads of decors and sold in 8 x 4 sheets or smaller, they can do tongue and grooved and any bespoke sizes you require. You need to consider access issues when using ceiling to floor panels as they could be impossible to position in place if working in a restricted space. To counteract this, the t & g panels could be used if you have them cut into slimmer pieces



+1

 

[vas]

thank you guys,

bojangles, yes was aware of this issue, that's part of my problems. Each partition can be delivered in one piece, fitting wont work in most cases unless they are put before the flooring (dodgy...)

jmf, v.useful description and comments as always especially as I haven't got any large/new craft around to check detailing! However, it seems I have to do the lamination myself in situ and I'm not particularly happy about it tbh. Have used magnetic glues on vinil and linoleum tiles with mixed results, I may have to opt for something decent factory fabricated, or go for 15mm ply and tiles (20x20mm swimming pool jobbies like the ones in behind your bathtub).

Got another month or two before assembling the bathrooms so will think a bit more on the details and check the local market for materials available. No way I'd get stuff like that from Glasgow obviously, although London could be different as there's a company sending daily shipments to Athens at reasonable cost

cheers

V.

 

[Bojangles]

Dont try and laminate yourself, very dodgy.. Let me know if you want the 8 x 4 laminated sheets, there will be someone who distributes in London. Another idea would be to sheet the area with the ply and then do a wall to floor vinyl (like Altro Walkway or Polyflor) this could be welded at corners and would provide a wetroom style shower enclosure (would need to be applied by a pro though, simply to do if you know how)

The sheet mosaic tiles may be the easiest way to go but might work out more expensive if it is a big area.

 

[jfm]

Dont try and laminate yourself, very dodgy.

+1 (!)

 

[vas]

+1

I know my limits

 

[BartW]

In case it is useful info V, FL use 15mm marine ply with a veneer of plastic. Modern stuff, thin veneer, not formica type. Mine have a sparkly metallic "pearlescent" look to the white skin. Has to be white not cream, else looks like old toe nails. Internal corners done with small bead of white silicone; external 90 deg forners done with angle wood profile; butt joins covered with 3mmx12mm white D plastic extrusion glued on with silicone. Ceiling is same material but white matt plastic veneer. All in pics below. You can do small areas in 20x20mm mosaics (Bisazza) to jazz things up a bit if you want. Eg the below are Bisazza "nefertiti", with brown grout. Floor is 12 or 15mm marine ply, 8x4 sheets, with 3mm veneer of teak blocks, varnished slightly non slip mat varnish (really nice product)

hey jfm, I like some of the finishing in your bathroom,
such as the pearlescent look, the small tiles, and the collor sheme, etc...
but I don't like the silicone bed in corners, nor the external angle wood profile, nor the plastic D strips,

I'm really impressed with Canados finishings on this, very fine laminated panels (not sure what material),
just a very small black or brown line on joints,
external corners have a big radius curve, or again a small black line
may I say this is good craftmanship ?

Tomorrow I can make a few detailed pics if you like,

but I agree this is no DIY, so my comment is of no use to Vasellis,
and your sugestion is a DIY solution
but then it will " look as DIY"
(thats what we say in my company when we are not completely satisfied with a result on a project )

 

[jfm]

hey jfm, I like some of the finishing in your bathroom,
such as the pearlescent look, the small tiles, and the collor sheme, etc...
but I don't like the silicone bed in corners, nor the external angle wood profile, nor the plastic D strips,

I'm really impressed with Canados finishings on this, very fine laminated panels (not sure what material),
just a very small black or brown line on joints,
external corners have a big radius curve, or again a small black line
may I say this is good craftmanship ?

Tomorrow I can make a few detailed pics if you like,

but I agree this is no DIY, so my comment is of no use to Vasellis,
and your sugestion is a DIY solution
but then it will " look as DIY"
(thats what we say in my company when we are not completely satisfied with a result on a project )

Tis tricky. Candos carpentry is as good as it gets pretty much, but you don't have wall panels in that picture big enough to need a butt join becuase those are all less than 10x5 panels. And to be fair to FL they also curve their plywood down to about 100mm radius but it was my design to have that sharp 90deg external corner (my bathroom is totally non standard) and I don't think canados could do anything better if making a 90deg external corner in laminated ply (I don't see how a small black line does it when you have 15mm of end grain to cover? Mitred corner would look awful). I have no problem with fine beads of silicone, in a bathroom, in the internal 90deg corners - I can't think what else to use! (???)

 

[Bojangles]

Tis tricky. Candos carpentry is as good as it gets pretty much, but you don't have wall panels in that picture big enough to need a butt join becuase those are all less than 10x5 panels. And to be fair to FL they also curve their plywood down to about 100mm radius but it was my design to have that sharp 90deg external corner (my bathroom is totally non standard) and I don't think canados could do anything better if making a 90deg external corner in laminated ply (I don't see how a small black line does it when you have 15mm of end grain to cover? Mitred corner would look awful). I have no problem with fine beads of silicone, in a bathroom, in the internal 90deg corners - I can't think what else to use! (???)

I think all of this is simply a matter of taste and individual preferences. Personally, I didn't notice either of the issues re the silicone or the corner profile. Those laminated ply sheets could have been tongue and grooved but unless this bathroom was module built and dropped in, it would have been virtually impossible to manhandle them into place (for very little if any gain). The only other possibility I could see for the external corner would have been an aluminium profile in a variety of finishes. Is the bath undermounted on a Corian type top? very nice.. Can't be many fellow captains enjoying a spa bath after a hard slog type day on the Med eh..

 

[jfm]

I think all of this is simply a matter of taste and individual preferences. Personally, I didn't notice either of the issues re the silicone or the corner profile. Those laminated ply sheets could have been tongue and grooved but unless this bathroom was module built and dropped in, it would have been virtually impossible to manhandle them into place (for very little if any gain). The only other possibility I could see for the external corner would have been an aluminium profile in a variety of finishes. Is the bath undermounted on a Corian type top? very nice.. Can't be many fellow captains enjoying a spa bath after a hard slog type day on the Med eh..

Yup, fully agree it is all down to personal preferences. Frexample, I wouldn't choose an ali profile for en external 90deg corner becuase I wouldn't want to introduce a new material, but it wouldn't be a wrong thing to do. T+G joints on the laminated wall panels would still need a small strip to cover the joint though, so I agree there would be little to gain

Yup, the bath is 1.8m two person job undermounted with a sparkly chocolate brown Avonite top and is bliss when you just feel like a bath after a hard day, and is a very convenient way to help dump 3/4 tonne water to save fuel for the next day's long cruise

(I still accept though that Canados joinery is right at the top of the industry in the 20-30m yacht sector. It really is very special stuff!)

 

[vas]

excuse my coming back to old threads as I slowly progress...

still not able to work with the broken rib, so websearching instead!

Seems that the material I'm more inclined to work with will be this sandwich aluminium/plastic core.
Called alucobond check all the details here
3-4mm thick, can be riveted, bolted, glued even use high quality velcros on it!

Leaving mounting issues aside, (as I'll come back to that) I can easily design a system with sizes large enough to reach the space using 2 or 3 different colours and use silicon (white or black) for the seams. If designed properly, it can be quick, easy, secure and definitely not look nasty diy.
Bearing in mind that the salon is v. well put together and v.black, I'm planning to introduce colour to the cabins and bathrooms. Hence, this solution can be ideal. Will come back with designs to show exactly what I'm thinking during the week.
Mounting, I guess its going to be simply double sided tape since pieces are going to be small enough (around 500mmX1000mm max) for the different expansion rates of marineply vs alucobond not to mater. Double sided tape can take a lot of lateral stress and the 3mm silicon seam between the panels can accomodate for the rest.

What does the panel think, anything I'm missing again here or I could work on that a bit more?

cheers

V.

 

[jfm]

I'm not sure that's a great choice (though I'm happy to be corrected):

1. 1000x500 is too small. You'll have too many joints
2. Surely it will compress (yuk) when you screw towel rails/toilet roll holders etc to the wall?
3. Surely it could dent if someone falls on it?

If you use laminated plywood you wont have the above problems

 

[BartW]

agree with Jfm on this,
now I've seen what "marine plywood" actually means,
I would consider that with a water resistant laminate.
this is how bathrooms in BA are done
even for the bigger walls, they alway's use "one piece"no seams,
only in the corner they use a very high Q gleu, no silicone.

I discovered that some smaller parts with difficult geometry for lamination, are painted plywood, in exactly the same collor.

 

[vas]

I'm not sure that's a great choice (though I'm happy to be corrected):

1. 1000x500 is too small. You'll have too many joints

sizes mentioned are purely indicative, will have to wait to see what I'm thinking but there should be panels 2000X500 as well as 1000X1000 in there. Re overall aesthetics will be edging towards de stijl and Piet Modrian composition II in red blue and yellow. Plain colours in largish panels with black wide seams obviously in good quality silicon.
Use fairly strong colours just to get an idea:

2. Surely it will compress (yuk) when you screw towel rails/toilet roll holders etc to the wall?

its only 4mm and will be bonded/glued on 15mm marine ply. It's dead easy to use spacers before I screw all fittings and avoid and squashing, I know...

3. Surely it could dent if someone falls on it?

Yes I remember you mentioning it, I'm not planning to use this as standalone panelling material on timber/alloy frame, it will always be on top of 15mm ply.

If you use laminated plywood you wont have the above problems

true but considering that some walls are already there, it means I'll be loosing space and I've not got plenty in a 43ft craft

Give me a few days to be able to go to the craft, measure heights and I'll come back with some drawings.

ah, found the local company doing same material called ETALBOND and there also do a 2mm version even lighter and well suited for what I want and even have a section related to automotive products
http://www.elval-colour.com/en/products-caravans

cheers

V