Insurance and tears

Kristal

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I have been turned down by every Insurer I have approached. On my last attempt, the broker was kind enough to pass on the Underwriters reasons:

<font color="blue"> "This does not really appeal, I wonder about the owners ability to maintain the boat as imagine it may not be a priority for either his time or money, I'll decline this one I'm afraid. </font>

A remarkable piece of deduction, as I'm quite sure I've never met the gentleman in question. I've had to pull out of the race I wanted to take part in at the weekend for obvious reasons, and will probably have to rethink my cruise to Suffolk which I was planning.

And my cat got run over and killed. What a cracking week.

/<
 

Transcur

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If you have a good survey then I would suggest you try Euro Marine. We have used them for 4 years . Very accodomating if you speak to the right person. We are in commision all year round use bothe swing mooring and piles in the winter, covered between Brest to Elbe, get no claims discount. Insured for racing(excluding rig ) small claim excess. I think they are linked to Norwich union. All for 1 1/2 % of valuation. Very happy.
 

Kristal

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That sounds super - Crystal has a superb survey from September 2003. I'll certainly have a look. Thanks very much!

Just out of interest, referring to my previous complaints about unnamed underwriter, I intend to discover if the blatent assumptions he has made about my character are purely based upon my age, and if they are, if it constitutes discrimination. The broker is similarly annoyed.

And if it does, I will be making a complaint to whichever ombudsman regulates the industry, at the very least.
 

Mirelle

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In defence of the underwriter..

I used to be one (ships, and, occasionally, large yachts, eg "Altair"), 25 years ago.

The fault lies not with the underwriter but with the broker for presenting the risk badly, but in any event the underwriter concerned is showing individual judgement and assessment of the risk. Which is much to be preferred to just rating it out of a rate sheet, be that supplied by Warren Buffett or anyone else.
 

Kristal

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That\'s as may be, but...

...the risk, in this case, seems to be that I am, in all likelihood, some oik in his twenties who is not likely to give my yacht (for which I paid one hell of a lot of money for) the time or financial commitment she deserves.

Had he gone a step further and actually suggested this in as many words, I would have had my solicitor on the phone - my broker called it "almost a character assessment", I call it "character assasination". He has made a judgement based upon presumption and prejudice, and in this country, there are rules about it.

I admit, time and money are short, but all that I have go on Crystal. I will not be hounded out of this hobby by those who wrongly believe it to be only for the privaleged, or the retired.
 

Mirelle

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Well, you might be.

Don't waste time on this; look for another underwriter (what did you do with your last one, incidentally?)

Old wooden yachts are a lousy risk, not because they are likely to sink, strand, or burn more often than AWB's (they don't!) but because the market value, hence the insured value, is low in relation to the cost of repair, thereby raising the TLO rate.

Nothing is going to change that; it's a fact. This makes those underwriters willing to look at the class more than usually picky.
 

Kristal

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Well, I am, but he doesn\'t know that

I don't know what happened to the last one. My partner looked after anything like that, because she's much better than me at things like that. I also have a lousy memory these days, and can't even remember who it was. I'm astonished I remembered it needed renewing at all.

So, having just remembered it's overdue for renewal (a few weeks back), and thought I'd make a clean break (at the cost of my no-claims bonus) and build a relationship with a company I liked the sound of.

I am pinning my hopes on the number of quotes I can rack up tonight, which will hopefully arrive tomorrow. If someone will cover me, I can still get into the Frostbite - if they won't, the year is stuffed.

/<
 

vande9389

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Just keep trying. The last response from an underwriter I got was that the survey showed the vessel in very poor condition. I have a Hillyard, surveyed 3 weeks ago, surveyors comments was that this was the finest example of such a vessel he had seen in years. She is also limpetited, which is still sound. The only 2 items on the survey I would see as being an issue were standing rigging to be changed, and the gas bottles needed a gas tight locker.

They either don't want the business or some of them really don't know what they are looking at. Of course they might have responded in error to a different survey!

Many of us are in the same boat on this one (no excuses for the pun!).

Regards
Pete
 

Kristal

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Sadly, I don't know his name - the broker I dealt with was as incensed as I was with the outcome, and is taking it up with the underwriting company (I don't know who they are either) on my behalf, so publishing his name and/or company wouldn't be right.

Be assured, if I knew who the git was I'd have splashed it about already!

I approached Euro Marine, as recommended by Transcur, and got exactly the deal that he did - I needed cover urgently, I spoke with a broker on the phone, who was very accomodating and it was all sorted within a day. I'm very grateful for the recommendation!!

Thanks for the solidarity!

/<
 

Kristal

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Welcome to the forum, Peter!

The gas bottle thing is a difficult one - I have to address that very soon, which is why I'm toying with taking Crystal out of the water for the first two months of the season!! My father is a Corgi registered gas installer, and one of his trade magazines had an article about installing and fitting a system that complies with the Boat Safety Scheme - it looks like it might be a bit tricky to keep it all in keeping with the rest of Crystal's layout.

I have a funny feeling I might revert back to Taylors...

/<
 

PeterWillis

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Re: Insurance and tears. And cookers

It is soooo tempting to unkindly suggest that Kristal's original brokers were all regular readers of CB Forum, though on reflection the reverse must be the case. They would see what fine advice he is able to and does avail himself of.


On the subject of cookers, and fuel for same, I've been seriously wondering about an Origo spirit stove for Nancy. Not as traditional, or as solid-looking as a Taylors. But also not as difficult for non-initiates ot cope with, perhaps? (and that is a big issue for Nancy). And about a fifth of ther price... Anyone got any experience?
 

Mirelle

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Have you got all day?

They take for ever to boil a kettle.

And, Peter, I would honestly expect anyone who reads Ransome to be able to do as Susan, Peggy and Dorothea all do in the books, as children, and use a Primus. It is hardly difficult.
 

Santana379

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Re: Have you got all day?

Good evening Mirelle

May see you for a swift half tomorrow at your local if I get away from my desk - I used to spend too much time on the PC working even before I discovered the CB Forum - now I never get off it and down to the boat.

Its all very well for you to say "And, Peter, I would honestly expect anyone who reads Ransome to be able to do as Susan, Peggy and Dorothea all do in the books, as children, and use a Primus. It is hardly difficult." Captain Flint didn't think Peggy made a very good job of it.

Mirelle's Taylors cooker works fine, (mainly because I've always stayed out of your galley). "Nancy Blackett" usually has people using the cooker who use it only once or twice a year, including me. Lots of mistakes are made, such as not pricking the wicks every time, being too brutal with the knobs etc. To my knowledge in four years the cooker has been back to the manufacturer twice, and refurbished by Robertsons once. Normally it starts to play up mid season. This year I will be laminating new notices to covering gentle use of the knobs and wick pricking, but I remain reasonably pessimistic, (the accountant's lot in life).

If PW goes for an Origo, sounds like I'd better take a thermos of hot water from home! Alternatively a can of self heating Espresso shot might be the answer: http://www.rocketfuel.uk.com (Probably quite good for night watches, providing the effects wear off in time for the watch below)

I don't thinks there's a total solution - however the Taylors does look great.
 

PeterWillis

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Re: Have you got all day?

Thanks Mirelle, as I feared re the Origo - otherwise I guess everyone would have one.
As Bill, sorry, FF explains it seems immersion in the works of the master, and his ability to impart learning without you noticing it, is not sufficient to enable many Blacketeers to master the rituals of the Taylors. I've never had any trouble with it myself, except when it's gone into a permanent sulk prompted by the abuse of others.

Possibly we should get an Origo as a backup, but the 2-burners are quite bulky. We did have one of those little canister-powered camping stoves which suddenly became on sale everywhere. But it turned out to be not as failsafe as you might imagine. It did so in the cockpit luckily (except for the varnishwork on the cockpit seat) and, I think at anchor which meant resolving the problem with a prompt OB-ing was an option. So never again,

Incidentally I've been typing this, or failing to,while watching a brilliant programme on Amundesen and the North West Passage on C4.

Which reminds me, Mirelle in particular, that I hear the RCC is awarding it Tilman Medal to Arved Fuchs for his NWP exploration in Dagmar Aaen.

And I keep thinking it's Friday...
 

Kristal

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Re: Have you got all day?

Hooray, I'm on a buoy at Erith...

The problem with Primuses is that they have the potential to go quite badly wrong, and induce panic amongst amateurs when they do, because of their relatively small size - you can easily knock a flaming one over if you haven't warmed the burner enough before you start pumping.
 

Kristal

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Mr Langford (I should honestly point out that Bonnie isn't actually related, one shouldn't really spread damning rumours like that) has informed me that he in fact works for Noble Marine, not Euro Marine.

I don't know how I got those confused, but I was in rather a tizz last week. But anyway, yes, sorry Jon, hope that clears up any moonlighting issues you may have had!

/<
 

vande9389

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Thanks Kristal.

I am with Pantaenius. I would class them as Good Guys based on my experience with them.

With regards to the gas thing, the Hillyard has quite a big starboard cockpit locker which houses the gas bottles already. I was thinking about installing a gas tight locker into it. My big worry is having to drill a hole through the hull for the vent pipe. I have thought or going the parafin route, but I am not sure about the ready availability of parafin generally. I need to think about that some more. Plus the equipment is a lot more expensive.
Regards

Peter
 
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