Insurance and Surveys

[Rigger Mortice]

For many years I've been with the same insurance company (Towergate). I've never made a claim so I don't really know how good they are.

Every five years they insist that I have a survey, which adds to costs. Whilst some surveys have been helpful, in that things I might not have spotted have been identified, I'm not convinced that the cost is really justified.

I'm beginning to think that it may be an idea to not bother with surveys and to be prepared to pay a little more for the insurance from another company.

My question therefore is can forumites tell me of any insurance companies that don't require surveys?

 

[neale]

You need to be careful with this. You'll hear from many people who say that their ins company hasn't asked for one, but that's not the same. Read the small print and most companies insist that any boat over x number of years old should have a current survey not more than x years old.

The fact that they don't always ask for one doesn't mean they wont want to see one the moment you put a claim in. Check the small print!

 

[tillergirl]

Read the small print and most companies insist that any boat over x number of years old should have a current survey not more than x years old.

Well that's not correct for mine. Mine requires me to take 'all reasonable steps to maintain and keep the vessel in a seaworthy condition and to safeguard her against loss or damage'.

My last survey was 1998! But I keep a record of all work done and I have from time to time told the brokers without being asked. I am reasonable happy that I can demonstrate that I have taken all reasonable steps to keep her in a seaworthy condition.

 

[neale]

Well that's not correct for mine. Mine requires me to take 'all reasonable steps to maintain and keep the vessel in a seaworthy condition and to safeguard her against loss or damage'.

My last survey was 1998! But I keep a record of all work done and I have from time to time told the brokers without being asked. I am reasonable happy that I can demonstrate that I have taken all reasonable steps to keep her in a seaworthy condition.

Well I did say MOST

My point is. The OP shouldn't just assume that because a certain insurance company doesn't ask its clients for regular surveys, they don't require them. Read the small print or ask the company before taking out a policy would be my suggestion.

This comes after having a conversation with someone who said to me "I have been with my insurance company for years and they have never requested a survey' I read the small print and sure enough it said, as a condition of offering insurance, that the policy holder (of boats over a certain age, and this would have included the person referred to) should have in their procession a recent satisfactory survey not more than 5 years old.

In the event of a claim, how do you think that insurance company would have dealt with the aforementioned policy holder?

My guess would be something along the lines of 'sorry sir, but you did not comply with the conditions of the policy'

 

[Baggywrinkle]

You need to be careful with this. You'll hear from many people who say that their ins company hasn't asked for one, but that's not the same. Read the small print and most companies insist that any boat over x number of years old should have a current survey not more than x years old.

The fact that they don't always ask for one doesn't mean they wont want to see one the moment you put a claim in. Check the small print!

If this is the case and anyone has a policy where their boat has become 'of surveyable age' but the insurance company hasn't asked for a survey then do the following:

Write to the insurance company asking why they didn't automatically request a survey at the point it was needed. They knew the age of the boat, and they knew their own terms and conditions. Then accuse them of taking your insurance premiums in the knowledge that you weren't covered.
In fact, at the last renewal they mis-sold a policy in order to take your money which is a case for the insurance ombudsman.

I did this with a bank and they refunded money and dropped penalty clauses without even needing a solicitors letter - they didn't follow their own internal checks.

 

[doug748]

My question therefore is can forumites tell me of any insurance companies that don't require surveys?

I have had a quick look through my Panteanius Terms and can find no reference to surveys. I have never been asked for one.

Mind you, given their charges, it might be cheaper to get regualr surveys. Though to be fair they actually dropped my premium by fifty quid this year - Gor blimey.

 

[Rigger Mortice]

Well that's not correct for mine. Mine requires me to take 'all reasonable steps to maintain and keep the vessel in a seaworthy condition and to safeguard her against loss or damage'.

My last survey was 1998! But I keep a record of all work done and I have from time to time told the brokers without being asked. I am reasonable happy that I can demonstrate that I have taken all reasonable steps to keep her in a seaworthy condition.

But who do you insure with?

 

[Baggywrinkle]

Just taken out insurance on a '99 Bavaria,

Panaenius asked for a full out of the water survey,
CJW didn't need a survey (only on boats over 20 years old)
Admiral wanted the standing rigging replaced.

Correct as of Sept. 2011

Hope this helps.

 

[Tranona]

I have just got 5 quotes for my 2001 Bav and only one required any form of survey - and that was just on the rig - not replacement, just a report from a recognised rigger. Suspect it helps that I have owned the boat from new.

Interestingly, 3 of the quotes were within 10% of what I currently pay, one was substantially cheaper, and one about 30% more expensive (but does eem on first reading to have less exclusions). Cover is virtually the same on all the others, but excesses vary and they have varying restrictions on single handing. I have only had 2 claims in over 30 years - one for damage in the 1987 storm and one for a stolen dinghy, so have little direct expeience of whether exclusions are important.

 

[GrahamM376]

For many years I've been with the same insurance company (Towergate). I've never made a claim so I don't really know how good they are.

Claims handling excellent.

 

[Richard10002]

I have had a quick look through my Panteanius Terms and can find no reference to surveys. I have never been asked for one.

Mind you, given their charges, it might be cheaper to get regualr surveys. Though to be fair they actually dropped my premium by fifty quid this year - Gor blimey.

Pantaenius charged me around £950 per year when I had Rogue, (value around £100k). The cheapest quote was about £100 less, so not extortionate in my experience.

Having read all the companies policies word for word, Pantaenius cover was greater, (I cant remember why as it was 5 years ago ), and therefore worth it IMHO.

I had to put right things mentioned on a survey from 3 years before I bought the boat, and my buyers had to have a full survey, and to agree to replace the rigging over a period - 15 years old, with no proof of ever being replaced, so not an unreasonable request.

 

[tillergirl]

But who do you insure with?

Nautical Insurance Services, Leigh on Sea 01702 470811

 

[tillergirl]

Well I did say MOST

My point is. The OP shouldn't just assume that because a certain insurance company doesn't ask its clients for regular surveys, they don't require them. Read the small print or ask the company before taking out a policy would be my suggestion.

This comes after having a conversation with someone who said to me "I have been with my insurance company for years and they have never requested a survey' I read the small print and sure enough it said, as a condition of offering insurance, that the policy holder (of boats over a certain age, and this would have included the person referred to) should have in their procession a recent satisfactory survey not more than 5 years old.

In the event of a claim, how do you think that insurance company would have dealt with the aforementioned policy holder?

My guess would be something along the lines of 'sorry sir, but you did not comply with the conditions of the policy'

I agree with you. You have to be prepared to demonstrate that you have kept your vessel in a sea worthy condition. For some it might be easier to have a regular survey. For me, it's keeping a record of all expenditure on maintenance and repairs, a regular programme of upgrading things etc.

 

[longjohnsilver]

For many years I've been with the same insurance company (Towergate). I've never made a claim so I don't really know how good they are.

Every five years they insist that I have a survey, which adds to costs. Whilst some surveys have been helpful, in that things I might not have spotted have been identified, I'm not convinced that the cost is really justified.

I'm beginning to think that it may be an idea to not bother with surveys and to be prepared to pay a little more for the insurance from another company.

My question therefore is can forumites tell me of any insurance companies that don't require surveys?

There was a case of motorboat which sank earlier this year, Towergate were the insurers and the owner had significant problems trying to make a claim. Maybe worth doing a search, poster is (I think) called Seahope.

Also this may be of interest, article of todays date.
http://www.insuranceage.co.uk/insurance-age/news/2118873/towergate-losses-accelerate-gbp213m

I certainly would not be looking to insure with them.

 

[Rigger Mortice]

Oh heck. Why is life always so difficult?

GrahamM tells me that my present insurance company is fine. LJS tells me that it isn't and, what's more it is going broke!
Some people need surveys, some don't. But if it's not needed I may get caught out on small print.
I'll give Tillergirls people a call but I think I'll also get a survey done on haul-out. I can then spend some time looking at other companies before getting new insurance in April.

Nevertheless, thanks for the input guys. I suppose I was being optimistic in hoping for an easy answer!