Installing an immersion....

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Well I have pretty much decided on my new boat, a Leader 805

The one I that I reckon I will be buying has a KAD 43 and has hot water via the calorifier on the engine. So I get hot water when the engine runs, sourced from the cold water tank.

I would like to install an immersion to have hot water at all times. Is this much of a task? I'm familar with the immersion plumbing on a house immersion, but how does it work on a boat?

My understanding is Cold water tank => Calorifier => Immersion

Now what's the story with keeping the immersion topped up? When it drops below a certain level does it fill itself up? What about when the immersion is full up? Does it block off more water coming in? What about when the engine isint running, how do I stop cold water coming in?

Can anyone enlighten me, or direct me to somewhere? Much appreciated!

 

[capsco]

When you draw of hot water the presure drop will activate your freshwater pump, this will refill your system. there should already be a non return valve on the calorifier.

 

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[ QUOTE ]
When you draw of hot water the presure drop will activate your freshwater pump, this will refill your system. there should already be a non return valve on the calorifier.

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So when the engine isint running, how would I stop the pump from pumping water (which would essentially be cold since the cal isint hot) into the immersion?

I'm not familar with hot water systems, are there seperate pumps for the hold and cold water? In apartments i've seen, the hot and cold water are on the same pump

 

[nedmin]

when hot water comes out the tap the calorifier is full of water.When the pump stops running (because it has reached the cut out pressure set by the pressure switch mounted on the pump or could be a separate pressure switch) the cal. stops full of water all the time.The immersion heater is mounted usually low down in the cal.(hot water rises).If your cal is a manufactured one the usually have a female threaded piece soldered on the cal, if you have this it is quite simple to remove the plug in this part and insert an immersion heater, after draining the water.If you havent it may be better to buy a new cal. with the immersion receptor already fitted as it is pretty difficult to retro fit.They are usually 250volt 1000watt altho some poeople fit larger wattages.Summing up look on the immersion as an electrical version of the coil of pipes in your cal. fed off your engine hot water.You only have one pump on the cold water side when you turn the hot tap on the cold water is pumped into the cal.and as the hot feed is at top of cal. tank you get hot water.the cold tap feed bypasses the cal.The thing to remember if you drain the system dont forget to switch immersion off or you will burn it out.

 

[gimmesunshine]

Cold feed from bottom of water tank to one pump with pressure valve to a t, one side feeds cold taps direct, other side feeds calorifier bottom, hot comes from cal top to taps. When first fill system will need to get all the air out by leaving taps open and therefore pump on. There on is easy, really is simple but effective.
Immersion is just a conventional but 1.2kw through top or side of the tank
and the top of the tank will have a pressure relief valve just in case
engine has it own sealed system which indirectly heats up cal water, so it uses it own engine mech pump and is not related.
one slight downside, if you get a leak in the pipework, the whole system will empty itself into the bilge
over winter drain down the system through bottom of cal

 

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The cal is built into the KAD43. I would plan on using the immersion to simply hold the hot water coming out of the cal. There would be no mains voltage heater as I don't have shore power

This is getting confusing, but i'd really love to have hot water on the boat

 

[Bilgediver]

The calorifier is the same as your hot water tank at home where the hot water is heated by a coil from your gas boiler or an immersion heater. On your boat the calorifier will be a tank with a coil in it through which hot water from the engine passes to heat the water. it is usual to also have an electric imersion heater in the calorifier tank and no need for an immersion tank.

The immersion heater is for use with shore power onnly unless you have an extraodrinary amount of battery power as it will tak around 1.2 KW.

Most folk run the engines should they need hot water and usually this provides enough till next time. For constant hot water you fit shore power or a generator or an Eberspacher hot water heater.

 

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Ah I see, I thought the cal on the KAD43 was to heat the water ONLY, and not store it. So I thought the cal would heat the water and then dump it into the immersion for storage.

I know each engine is different, but i'd hardly get a shower out of the cal hot water storage on a KAD43 ... Must see if I can find the capacity of it

 

[PCUK]

I think there may be some confusion here. calorifiers are not built into engines. A calorifier is a hot water tank similar to the one at home except calorifiers are designed to work under pressure while home tanks are not. This is why people using home tanks find that they split at the seam when under pressure. The hot water from the engine circulates through the coil in the calorifier automatically when the engine is running. It doesn't have a separate pump, so when the engine is stopped the water no longer circulates. This is the same principle as the boiler at home. The immersion element (which must be a double insulated marine type) heats the water in the tank in the same way as it does at home. Whatever, you have on your engine isn't a calorifier.

 

[gideon]

My two penneth worth; some calorifiers have an extra copper water coil for a feed from a back boiler of a stove, popular with narrowboats and the like. Also, it's important the heating coil (electric or copper tube) is not right at the top, i.e. 12 o'clock if the calorifier is mounted horizontaly. The coil must be down a bit in the tank so the heat circulates the warmed water, thermo syphonic action I think it's called.

Richard

 

[Wiggo]

[ QUOTE ]
The immersion heater is for use with shore power onnly unless you have an extraodrinary amount of battery power as it will tak around 1.2 KW.

Most folk run the engines should they need hot water and usually this provides enough till next time. For constant hot water you fit shore power or a generator or an Eberspacher hot water heater.

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Just so, it's like a small version of your domestic system. Ours is too small and with four of us, we tended to have only lukewarm water after a night on the pick. I fitted a 2kW inverter to run the immersion, and bumped up the domestics to 650Ah to cope. 25 minutes is enough to get the water piping hot, and only takes about 100Ah out of the batteries, so we're good for three days without shore power or running the engines (unlikely).

I would have preferred a combined air/water heater from Eberspacher, but it would have been a plumbing nightmare to retrofit, and the inverter plus batteries only cost £500 or so.

 

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OK so I don't really know what setup is on the boat i'm currently looking at. Basicly I get hot water when the engine is running and it's a KAD43 .... can anyone enlighten me? Finding it hard to find info online, no strong keywords!

 

[alt]

OK I guess what I meant to say is...
The engine has a water heater. I'm guessing that the 'Hot' pipe for the tap just goes through this, hence when engine is running, we get hot water.

What I want to achieve is somewhere to store this hot water when the engine is running, so that I can get hot water when engine isin't running. So basicly an immersion without an element, basicly just a tank with insulation. I've seen it on a few Leader 805's

 

[carlton]

But you must already have a calorifier fitted - it's the only way you can be getting hot water when the engine's running. It's the engine's cooling water that deposits its heat inside the calorifier as the engine's water pump circulates it.

Have another look - it definitely sounds as though you already have a calorifier fitted.

It provides indirect heating through a sealed coil inside the calorifier tank. I mention this because, in your original post it sounds as though you believe the calorifier to be directly heated;

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Now what's the story with keeping the immersion topped up? When it drops below a certain level does it fill itself up? What about when the immersion is full up? Does it block off more water coming in? What about when the engine isint running, how do I stop cold water coming in?


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This piccy might help you grasp the idea.

It should simply be a case of locating it (by following the path of the engine cooling hoses away from the engine), possibly removing it if it's a bit inaccessible, and fitting an immersion heater element and cabling, and refitting it. Or have I misunderstood ? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[Wiggo]

OK, you should look here, and here for the sorts of stuff you need. You take a hose from the heat exchanger on the side of the engine (or somewhere round there, anyway) and run it to one of these units. You can also have a mains immersion heater so you can get and store hot water even if the engine hasn't been running.

 

[hlb]

and fitting an immersion heater element and cabling, and refitting it. Or have I misunderstood ?
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Keep up!!

It's now established that he has no electrickery availlable. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Just needs sumate that will keep the hot water hot. For how long is not mentioned.

Think we are looking for a none lectrickery emmersion heater.

And I thought Mobo chat was getting boring. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

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Hi again lads, thanks for the replies.
Basicly, the KAD 43 does have a calorifier, or a 'water heater' as the manual says. It is, as mentioned above a coil through which the coolant goes through. Then there's holes aroud the casing (Inlet/Outlet)

From my understanding, at the moment, the hot water tap just flows through this. So it's cold water tank => Calorifier => Tap

Basicly what I want to be able to do is store this hot water. TBH I only want to be able to keep it hot for maybe a half hour after the engine stops, not too bothered really. To confirm I have no electricity.

So what I want is cold tank => calorifier => immersion (just to store hot water) => tap

I know this can be done pretty easy, what I don't know is:
1) Can the immersion fill up, and then just the immersion water go through the calorifier?
2) How does the immersion keep topped up? ie. if it goes to half full, get more water from the cold water tank

Looks like I should just buy a boat with it already installed /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[carlton]

[ QUOTE ]
and fitting an immersion heater element and cabling, and refitting it. Or have I misunderstood ?
......................................................................
Keep up!!

It's now established that he has no electrickery availlable. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Just needs sumate that will keep the hot water hot. For how long is not mentioned.

Think we are looking for a none lectrickery emmersion heater.

And I thought Mobo chat was getting boring. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

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Haydn,

You're correct - in one of his posts, he says;

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There would be no mains voltage heater as I don't have shore power


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So, how else can he power an immersion without fitting an electrical supply ? I took it as given that he understood that bit.

However, it does appear that what he's looking for is some kind of addtional tank to store a larger amount of hot water.

Years ago I had a boat where the previous owner had plumbed in a small gas cylinder as an extension tank - maybe that's what he needs..........

Edit; Crossed over replies - looks like he needs a storage tank.

 

[hlb]

Ok. At the risk of falling for some fiendish joke. I'll be the mug. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

1/ An emmersion heater, is an electricery elliment, like in an electric kettle. It dont work without lectrickery.

2/ A calorfier, makes and stores hot water, bit like a vacuum flask.

If you run engine (the one conected) untill water is hot. You will have hot water for maybe a day.

 

[alt]

Yes, what I need is a 'hot water storage' unit to keep things simple.

The thing is that I reckon the calorifier in the KAD43 is pretty tiny. I basicly need an immersion, except without the heating element, and only using it for storage. So basicly I need a copper tank with a lagging jacket /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif