Inshore Forecast - Absence of 3 day Outlook Update

[Stoshak]

Further to the previous thread I received a very prompt reply from CGA, but they don't seem to understand the problem.
Apparently the outlook was dropped from the radio broadcasts on the usual basis of lack of time, with the agreement of the RYA and other bodies.
But the CGA seem to think that the Outlook is still available on the Met Office and other websites.
I have responded by pointing out that nothing further forwards than 48 hours is available on the websites and there should be no space constraints to justify its absence.
But I didn't mention Hilda

 

[rhumlady]

Why do the RYA always agree to these changes? I have never been asked for my views over the pat 14 years.

 

[Davolas]

They have been dropped from the Navtex forecasts as well.

Only way they now seem to be available is by paying for metfax, phone etc.

The same way everything else seems to be going these days, why provide a service for free if someone can make a profit from it.

 

[Pye_End]

If you are out on your boat, for many if not most boat owners, VHF is probably the most critical source of weather information (together with the shipping forecast). Would have said that this was the last place that they should remove the long range forecast from.

Very annoying. I wonder if this decision is reversable.

 

[TonyS]

Did you hear the shipping forecast this morning? It now seems normal to have Dover, Wight, Portland , Plymouth and Biscay lumped together. The forecast was NW 4 to 5 if I heard correctly. If you look at the wind history at the channel light vessels there was 30kts (F7) for some hours today and it is now F2 at 62305. At Southampton it is blowing F5 now. The shipping forecast given for a range of 2000 miles is useless for determining whether or not to make a crossing. IMHO it is most unlikely that the weather in 2 adjajent areas is exactly the same but I suppose if you are driving a supertanker you only want to know when it is likely to be F9 or 10. The shipping forecast is for them and not us. The only bit of information which is useful is where the lows are moving but that doesn't include the movement of the fronts that determine the actual weather.

 

[rhumlady]

I doubt if supertankers listen to the shipping forecast. They probobly have far better sources and can afford to get forcasts that are likly to be correct.

 

[Sgeir]

I also had a very decent response from them, but I find it disappointing in that the synopsis is being promoted as a better alternative to the 3 day outlook for UK coastal waters. Also, it seems that a lot of faith is being put in Navtex, which is known to have problems in some areas eg west of Scotland.

[ QUOTE ]
Thank you for your query reference the 3 day forecast element of the
Inshore Forecasts.

Because of the number of words we were restricted to with the three day
forecast at the end of the Inshore Forecast, it was considered by many
to be too general in other words, not location specific enough. The
issue was discussed with officers from the RYA and the Conference of
Yacht Cruising Clubs during consultations that took place leading up to
the revised MSI broadcasts and it was decided that a synopsis would be
of greater value.

Given the MCA's high profile for safety and sound passage planning, the
information is available on NAVTEX in far greater detail than we could
hope to make available for an R/T broadcast. is is also available of the
Met Office web site and there is a link from the MCA web site.

[/ QUOTE ]
The synopsis is better than nothing, although the ones I've heard seem to be no more location specific than the 3 day outlook, which at least had the advantage of being at least a bit more time specific.

Personally, I have been put off buying Navtex as it reported to be unreliable in some areas. However, I suppose I'll just have to look at it again and count ma bawbees.

Incidentally, I agree with you about Hilda.

 

[Robin]

Tony, you were lucky that the forecast you heard didn't start at Humber, Thames then Dover Wight Portland Plymouth Biscay.

I find it exceptionally annoying especially looking at a Channel crossing when the offshore forecast as above covers such a huge area whilst the inshore ones from the same source split into smaller areas give a much different picture, showing the variations that should be in the Shipping Forecast. In Cherbourg recently and with WiFi access we paid more attention to a combination of the French coastal (up to 20mls off the coast) and the British Inshore (up to 12mls off) that meant we only had to double guess the remaining 28mls in the middle! The Shipping Forecast was constantly calling F7s but more research suggested this was only around Dover Strait, the rest of the Channel at least wasn't as bad.

Giving such minimal information, all lumped together in a forecast that is basically covering half the North Sea right out to the Atlantic with no variations even in timings hinted at, makes it of little use. I find I look a lot these days at both Meteo France and xcweather.com, plus synoptic charts as far out as I can find.

Modern, supercomputers and hang the expense, not a lot of use IMO and as someone else has said it isn't just for Supertankers either as they will have access to much better I'm sure.

Robin

 

[Blue5]

I think you will find this is just symptomatic of The Met Office doing the bare minimumm to fulfil their remit.

The 3 day outlook on the aviation side is now only available on subscription, they will tell you that for a small fee (£17) (not small in my eyes) you can talk to a forecaster to get a personal forecast.

 

[Allegro]

Synopsis doesn\'t cover 5 days - does it??

I had noticed the synopsis, and welcomed it. But unless I'm seriously misremembering it it didn't really cover a five day period - gave the location of the various highs and lows now, perhaps with a comment suggesting where they will be in 24 hours, but nothing up to five days ahead. Even as someone who when at home often prefers to look at the synoptic charts online than read the interpretation of them I don't see how a synopsis of the next 24 hours can be considered to be equivalent to a five day outlook. Bring back the outlook, say I (and I've voted equivalently, Sgier).

Cheers
Patrick

 

[Allegro]

Re: Synopsis doesn\'t cover 5 days - does it??

Just noticed Sgeir's link to the MCGA feedback form -
http://www.mcga.gov.uk/c4mca/mcga-home/mcga-contact-us.htm

I've sent the following to them - anyone else care to follow suit?

[ QUOTE ]
I wish to add my voice to those calling for the restoration of the three day outlook at the end of the coastguard inshore waters forecast broadcasts. I'm afraid I really don't think that the a synopsis covering the next 24 hours is an equivalent service to a forecast covering the next 5 days.

Particularly sailing in remoter areas - we sail the west coast of Scotland - the VHF outlook is essential for safety and forward planning. Alternative sources of this information (eg internet or mobile phone) are often not available in these areas.

Can I encourage you to restore the three day outlook as an essential part of your remit of improving safety at sea.

Thanks.

Patrick Fox

[/ QUOTE ]

Cheers
Patrick

 

[Pye_End]

Re: Synopsis doesn\'t cover 5 days - does it??

Thanks for the link.

Done.

 

[Sgeir]

Re: Synopsis doesn\'t cover 5 days - does it??

To be fair to the MCA, they've been very quick to respond in detail. I've had a subsequent mail from them concerning specific issues eg, an assurance that they are actively looking to improve the NAVTEX service with the possibility of using another aerial site which would greatly enhance coverage in the west of Scotland (known to have reception problems).

However, the MCA have made the point that the RYA and the Conference of Yacht Cruising Clubs were involved in the consultation. I've therefore asked the RYA for its view.

Not many sailors, including myself, will wish to get involved with the organisational and policy minutiae of the RYA, but I feel it would be helpful for the RYA to at least have an informal online policy forum for rank and file members on this sort of issue. Hence the suggesion here.

As Webcraft has noted, "The only downside is the possiblility of it turning into a whingers forum rather than something positive . . . it may need delicate moderation."

If we (myself included) can attenuate our grinting and greeting, then an RYA policy forum could be a useful sounding board.

 

[bluedragon]

I had the same response, but then I asked the guy where exactly I could find it on the Met office website. This stumped him, and he said he'd pass my e-mail on the Met Office!! Let's see what happens...