Increase in med berths rent

Magnum

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If the next 5 years followed the last, how much would med berth rentals increase by on average, per annum? Mallorca info would be ideal.
 

Dave_Snelson

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I'm pretty sure that RPI doesn't factor hear Magnum. What they are doing is racking the price up until they start to lose custom and shrink the waiting list. At that point, they know how much their market and their customers will stand. Then they work from there. Its a common trick in the leisure industry.
 

jfm

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Hard to tell. In many places incl Antibes the must-rent-through-capitainerie rule has been introduced, and this has cut the rents. but it seems pretty clear that people are arranging private payments, ie the renter pays X to capitainerie, all official, and then another X to the owner. At least, that's how it looks having heard about recent ads and deals done..... i dunno first hand
 

tcm

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your question was if last next years followed last, and afaik the rents haven't gone berserk in the last five years. Five before before that tho they came off the floor to a boom. Dunno majorca, but some berths are just unique items, last resting pklaceof large wodge of newly-found cash. Price of berths in portals have certainly doubled and rent generally 1/12th of that.
 

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Not Mallorca. La Rague in South of France ( you know the crap one that TCM goes on about, just under Ralph Schumacher's gaff and the Chanel house )

Having just checked 'official price list' for last 4 years , prices rising by about 6% per annum ... it varies by port though as each AGM sets the prices for the coming year. Also annual rents and other peiods are different rates.

Unofficial rates are very close to TCMs calculation ( should add I hadn't appreciated the formula until he just pointed it out ) .. somewnere between 1/10th - 1/12th of purchase price. Have found way around the Capitainerie 15% that they endorse, but not relevant to this ...
 

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Dilemna

OK then, let me pose a hypothetical question /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Scenario A - berth for sale at €105,000 + €2,800 annual port fees with 5.5 years left. Port fees only due when in occupation and as with most med berths no problem in renting out (amount not port controlled). Berth in good position. Oh, I'm pretty sure there's a 5% sales tax to add and prolly €600 notaries fees.

Scenario B - Port will rent berth for €21,800 on yearly contract. Initially position not as good but could move as season quitens down. Obviously no sub-let possibilities.

Which option, all things considered is more appealing?
 

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Re: Dilemna

these are a bit close to each other for an easy decison i spose.

Worth considering what happends at end of lease. Sometimes, there's an extension free gratis, or small fee. Or, i spose complete renewal of lease would cost resonable loot . But either way, the berth is not gonna explode - there'll be a fee and probly not one that erk jeez means the marina empties the next moprning. The repurchase of that bereth will be set by a council authority or whatever not a moneygrubbing git hoping it's gone up up up, so renewal not likley to be prohibitive - and owners get first refusal. The prices are a bit negotiable - so bollox to the 5% and the notary fees for starters.

Mainly of course - is this where you really really want to be? I don't think you makke tons of loot on buying and selling. or not much - the main thing is the stability of tenure, no getting chucked out and ooer wonder whatthe fees are etc etc...
 

SteveE

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Re: Dilemna

I would go for option A, if the EU get's it's way and red diesel loses it's no vat status, I am sure all of the marina's in the med and other no UK areas will expect an influx of UK boaters and will adjust prices in line with the extra demand.

Option A also alows you to cash in on this, if it where to happen?
 

rickp

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Re: Dilemna

[ QUOTE ]
I would go for option A, if the EU get's it's way and red diesel loses it's no vat status

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't there VAT now, albeit at the 5% rate? If you go above a certain amount (3000 litres?) then you get smacked with VAT at the full rate. Agree with the sentiment though, that loss of Red Diesel may make the Med a more attractive target for boats beyond a certain size.

Rick
 

EME

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Re: Dilemna

Not quite sure where you are coming from on this hypothetical one , as other factors may be important like your intention to stay in that area/port. My experience of rules and regs are limited to South of France - so may be irrelevant.

However, from those figures , and assuming a long term stay, the discounted value of purchase vs rent means that EVEN if value goes to zero then at least you have security of tenure of the berth. If you get a discounted 'renewal' rate then you are quids in. Worst case scenario is that 'berh' is valueless after zero years and sale at any time during the remaining lease period will be current purchase price less notional annual rentals paid - so no loss whatsoever vs rental position and better location ..

The 'rental' option ( assuming rules are like SoFrance) also gives you no security of occupation ( you can kick any renter off with 2 months notice or sometimes less).

My own view remains that the scarcity of berths ( and particularly 18-23m) will result in increasing value over the long term.

BUY

P.S. Do you have to pay notary fees in Spain?
 

jfm

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In that scenario, always buy

Option A, for the reasons already given (a) nice spot, no hassle of being chucked out and (b) there's a free warrant on the upside if everything is renewed for another 25yrs and you get a discounted lease.

But the upside thing is a long game. Likely there will not be a tidy "sign here for 25 years" ticket thru your letterbox, in exaclty 5.5 years from now. More likely the 5.5years point will arrive and THEN they will slowly start to figure out what to do. So a few years of limboland (read - you will occupy/sublet the berth for free apart from port fees - so quite good - your 5.5 is really 8.5)

Witness Andraitx and Cannes legal stuff that is taking years. Anyone know the latest SoP at Andraitx? Any berth lease owners on this forum?
 

Magnum

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Re: In that scenario, always buy

Thanks for the comments all.

I guess I was just a little surprised that the "buy" option was about the same price or maybe a little more than the "rent" option.

jfm, lease length in many of the newer marinas is much shorter than elsewhere - normally between 8 and 10 years. I was told however that the port authority is likely to offer a renewal to me first, before the marina and at the same price it would be offered to them. On that basis, it sounds like a good deal.
 

Lozzer

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I have just helped someone buy a berth in Puerto Banus, 18m berth. It is serious business if you can buy a berth with a long lease. Banus have 62 year lease left on them. You can sub let unlike most spanish marinas. Private rent is tower price plus about 80%....

Sale value is rocketing up and rents arent far behind... I reckon the price will double in the next 5 years... Wish I had enough cash to buy one myself as a pure investment.

Do watch the lease side of things, I know people say Spain, laid back etc. Not the case anymore, they are getting hot on extracting money out of everyone.
 

Magnum

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OK I've bought it. Did a deal with the owner on tax costs. Won't need it until mid-August so available to anyone looking for a berth for a few months under 6m beam.
 

jfm

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Congrats Magnum. Where is it ? - you didn't say

On this renemal thing the reason I think existing holders will get refusal is just common sense. If you were the local council and 500 berth leases just reverted to you, you would want to unload them for fresh premiums asap. Logically you would ask the existing leaseholders first - why try and find 500 new punters? Also the price would logically refelct a bulk sale, so much less than the thin market secondary trading prices of 1 or 2 berths at a time
 
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