In mast reefing

ditchcrawler

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I am considering in mast reefing(add on system).Any recomendations or ones to avoid.The boat is a 27ft Hunter Pilot.I know a new sail will be neede as well.The easyreef system looks a possible with their vertical battened sail.Any comments will be much appreciated.
 

davehu

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In my experience I would not do it, I recently took off a system on my 27 foot boat as it ruined the sailing performance. The Hunter 27 is designed to sail and an in-mast system will ruin the performance. The weight aloft will increase the heel. Also be careful about the claims of using vertical battens, they only work up to a point and they do not have a long life. If sail handling is a problem consider using a good stack pack reefing system. If you want independant advise about vertical batten maninsails talk to Gowen sails in W Mersea
 

Geordie

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I used an add-on reefing system for many years on my long keel heavy displacement yacht. As it was used for cruising, I did not notice an appreciable difference in performance. After many years of trouble free use, I decided that it is a safety factor. With main and foresail furling I found that I had an infinitely variable sail plan available, controlled from the cockpit. This meant that there was no hesitation about whether to reef or not, adjustments were made immediately I felt they were necessary. This sail plan coped very well with winds up to gale force, except that pointing ability was reduced with reducing sail area. With my previous slab reefing system, I used to hesitate about reefing and shaking a reef out. Pundits say that the time to reef is when you first think about it. It is not that clear cut with slab reefing

Like everything, there are drawbacks. First, and most important in my opinion, it adversely affects the designed angle of vanishing stability. This matters only if you ever get into a situation where there is a possibility of being rolled over. The likelihood of that happening depends on the bounds of your sailing. If you are ocean going it can never be discounted. If you are a coastal sailor then prudence reduces the likelihood of that happening.

The other drawback is reduction in performance - to be weighed up against the advantages
 

waterboy

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I agree with Davehu. Slab reefing is by far the best system If you read the article in this month's YM, ignore it. It is a load of twaddle comparing a well set up Halberg with in-mast against a standard built-to-a budget Bav with a cheap 2 point single line system. Hardly a fair comparison. Slab reafing for me, but with 3 points and leech and luff lines. Lots of lines, I know but good control in all circumstances
 

Marmalade

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John - check out the in mast system on Southern Hey on Marconi's moorings - Roger has just added it having had an indentical system on Rubicon his previous boat - also on a Marconi mooring - he swears by it - can't remember where he go it though so if he's aboard call him up and ask him
 

Robin

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I'm with you too, a properly set up slab reefing system is much better. I also thought that the YM article was worthless, if you cannot test 3 systems that are at least working properly then why bother at all! IMO though a 2-line cockpit controlled slab system with 3 reefs is the way to go. Single line has too much friction, more to go wrong (inside boom blocks) and generally requires the 3rd reef to be done as a 'normal' slab, probably from on deck when you REALLY don't want to be there! We have the 2-line slab set up with 3 reefs, all done from the cockpit, easy peasy even on a 41 foot cruiser/racer with a big powerful fully battened mainsail and just the 2 of us, not so young either, on board.
 

DanTribe

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I have just removed an old Easyreef system from my UFO 31, and pleased to be rid of it.
If you or anybody else wants it to play with before comitting to the expense of a new one, you are welcome to it. It lays in Burnham.
It is a fairly old one [ approx 10 years], but appears essentially the same as current types.
On the plus side it was convenient and worked quite well most of the time.
The bad side was that the sail was inefficient and the weight aloft was not good. The times when it jammed were, of course, when you REALLY needed it to work.
Many people have good things to say about them, but I couldn't put up with it.
Dan
 

fireball

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Slab - 2 line or single?

Would disagree with your too much friction arguement ...
You can dispense with the blocks inside the boom and make it a true single line reef, the key (so I have now discovered!) is getting the right line thickness...
Certainly a third reef - single line can be added easily - just don't have it going through blocks within the boom ...
 

Robin

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Re: Slab - 2 line or single?

If it works in practice then that is all matters. My question would be how the sail shape is affected when the same line has to apply tension at two widely spaced points with differing loads on each? More importantly would be putting in the 3rd reef because going on deck to do it would be a good reason to put off doing it at all in my book and if I HAD to do one on deck would prefer it to be the 1st not the 3rd one!
 

FlyingSpud

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I was thinking of doing the same on my Storm. How difficult was it to get the easy reef off, and were there any problems with the mast underneath? Did you plug the rivet holes. (If you got someone to do it, wouldn't mind knowing who and the cost).

As to the easyreef, I think it is a personal preference thing, arguably you have a greater sail control and so can reef more precisely, so in a heavy wind I felt that on occasions it could be an advantage, as well as being safer (mine never stuck – of course saying that means it now will). Once the Boat starts getting up speed I doubt it made much difference. At low wind speed I think though that you do lose a bit of speed, though I have no idea how any test could ever prove it. The one we had was put on by a former owner, who was in poor health at the end. The easyreef meant he could carry on sailing. It was worth it for him.
 

Peppermint

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Re: In mast reefing is the work of the devil.

It's the most labour intensive "aid" I've ever used. I've used a variety of systems on boats from 35 to 49 ft and I've yet to find one that inspires any confidence at all.

You get paranoid about rolling it up in case it jams. If it does jam your way out there up the creek. The sail sets like a floozies draws. You've raised your C of G.

You'll notice. I'm not a fan.
 

DanTribe

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Hi
It was fairly easy to remove once the decision was made. Drilling out the first rivet was a bit traumatic, the next 99 were easier. I filled the holes with the smallest monel rivets I could get [4.8 x 9mm from Sea-Screw]. Seldens said it was not necessary but cosmetically preferable.The mast underneath was in excellent condition, better than the exposed areas.
I had to buy new gooseneck & sail entry gate. I also replaced the main halyard sheave as it had seized through lack of use.
I'm sure that the boat is stiffer & more responsive and will be even better when the sailmaker eventually delivers my new mainsail.
Dan
 

pragmatist

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Re: In mast reefing is the work of the devil.

Agree entirely. Ours was an Easireef behind mast system fitted by the previous elderly owners as a way to extend their cruising life - and they freely admitted it was a waste of time and money. Friction was such that you had to sit at the foot of the mast to furl or unfurl it. The only good news was that to windward it was a beautiful sail - downwind the hollow leech lost a good deal of sail area.

When we removed it (replaced with slab reefing, 2 full battens, 2 part battens & stack pack) the bow came up 2 inches and she is far less tender - particularly when tied up to the pontoon beam on to a big wind. She is far happier rigged as she was designed to be and I'll put up with raising and reefing with the help of self-tailers.
 

ex-Gladys

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The only thing I know is that we charged through a Ben 331 last year up wind. I assumed it had to be b/k, but they were only fin. Mainsail shape was absolute cr@p, and even for a cruiser performance is an advantage
 

mirabriani

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"It was worth it for him"
Right, I am sure there are times when many people
might think "I wish I could reef from the cockpit"
On a trip from St Maarten to Bermuda on a 43 footer
there was more than one occasion when I made that wish
I would not exagerate but would guess F5, (heavy swell
white tops) The whole business was underlined by the fact that when motorsailing in the dark with three reefs
"Cecil", on watch, watched while the sail thrashed itself to shreds. Ohhh how we laughed in the morning!
Regards Briani
 

rwoofer

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To balance the argument (since everyone seems anti-furling). Before I bought my current boat I would have definitely put myself in the slab-reefing camp (my previous boat was a sports boat and performance was important to me).

My current boat was only ever made with in-mast furling so I kind of got forced into it and have used it for 1.5 seasons. My verdict - I don't knock people with it anymore. The performance difference can be really small, certainly less than the difference between a dirty and clean bottom. Never had a problem furling the thing, but real bonus is the sheer ease of use which means I simply do more sailing and you can't argue with that....
 

AOWYN

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There are pros and cons and learning to trim the sail is rather more important than many non-enthusiasts admit.

I would have preferred to upgrade to a fully battened performance sail of the type which I first fitted to a family boat in 1984, but I now sail single-handed in a heavy 36ft sloop and Maxi-roach has proved to be a good move. It is possible that there is a slight performance deficit (there must be) but it is slight and only at the bottom end of the wind range and if I cared that much about upwind light air performance I might remove over half a ton of spares plus booze from within the boat and I might get rid of the large fixed three bladed prop. and so on and on...

I get far more miles under sail (main and jib) than I ever did before and frankly that is important otherwise why have a sailing boat

Don't be put off by people preaching perfection, there is room for differences of opinion.
 

aidancoughlan

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I removed a Banmar behind-the-mast system from my newly acquired Westerly Merlin this winter. It was an easy enough job...
- removed the cables from the mast first for protection
- drilled the rivet heads out with a large flat drill bit
- drilled the rivet body out (I think with a 5mm or 6mm drill bit in my case)
- plugged the holes with monel rivets, and filled the rivet heads with silkaflex
- removed the mast foot , and got a forklift to lift the head in order to shake out the drilled rivet bodies (kick the mast vigorously to shake the rivets down!!)

Why did I remove it ? The Banmar was (probably) 20 years old, and I'm just happier with a simpler reefing system as there's less to go wrong. I went on a flotilla holiday a couple of years ago, and one couple were there simply to try out the (modern) roller-main reefing on an Oceanis 351 - every day they were on the VHF looking for assistance to free jammed sails - fixed every time by the lead crew engineer shinning 1/4 way up the mast with a 12 inch ruler !! I expect this is not the norm, but it obviously can happen. While it's a cruising boat, I'm hoping performance will be better than it would otherwise be.

I've just got delivery of a new Mainsail with slab reefs and stackpack, which I feel much happier with.
 

boatmike

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A practical point to consider without taking sides. I built my own boat and fitted a mast 1.5 metres higher than standard to compensate for the loss of roach in the mainsail which is vertically battened. It is also a mast designed for in mast reefing not an add on. I therefore have no loss of sail area or performance with very little added weight aloft. There is also no change to the angle of vanishing stability as its a catamaran. On a small monohull like yours with an add-on system the increase in weight will be significant and affect stability to some extent. The loss of sail area may be minimal but the performance of a fully battened main with full roach will be greater. Personally although I am a fan of well set up in-mast systems the disadvantages on a smaller boat like yours may well outweigh the advantages. I do not however agree that the YM article was flawed. I believe it was a well balanced article.
 
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