In-mast reefing

MissFitz

MissFitz

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Still trying to find my perfect boat, & have seen a couple that look very promising except that they've got in-mast reefing. I've read that this is a Bad Thing as it means you can't put battens in the sails, but this was in books about bluewater sailing - does it matter so much for coastal cruising? And do these systems get stuck often?
 
In my experience there are good and bad systems. If it is original (ie part of the mast) then they seem to work well and provide an infinite adjustment of sail area with complete control from the cockpit. However, I have had some bad experiences with aftermarket systems (rivetted to the back of the original mast) where the system jams.

You will loose some performance as the sail shape and area will be compromised compared to a regular sail. Also, you will carry extra weight in the mast and specifically high up in the mast which will reduce the stability of the boat (albeit very slightly) compared with a normal sail.

Choice is yours; convenience and ease of handling vs performance?

Jonny
 
I'd go for the in-mast reefing. You may lose a 1/4 knot or so, but if you're cruising it isn't important. A much more important consideration, in my opinion, is the ability to reef without going up to the mast/staggering around on the coachroof. Also, because it's so easy to haul the sail out, compared to sweating it up the mast, we find that we sail a lot more than if we had regular reefing. On those marginal "is it worth putting the sail up" occasions we just do it!

Jamming isn't a problem once your've got a good technique. The sail will always go back in, it's getting it out where problems can occur and it's usually easily fixed.

Hope this helps.
 
This subject crops up often. You will get posts for and against. The reason you are seeing a lot of boats with it however is that it's getting increasingly popular for good reason. Those that are for them usually have one, those against don't and probably never have. Treated properly they don't jam. In the simplest form they don't have horizontal battens and therefore the sails have to be cut with negative roach. There is therefore a slight loss of sail area. You can have vertical battens or part battens which restores some area but you need to make sure the slot in the mast is big enough to pass them. Some ( z-spars in particular) aren't. The convenience of instant furling however without leaving the cockpit is very good, especially for a single handed sailor. Don't turn down a good boat because you don't like the idea. Most who have it would not swap.
 
I disagree that jam prevention is merely a matter of technique. If there's a system/component failure in the roller gear / bearings / etc, you could be left with a large chunk of flappy stuff out of control. It might not matter if the sail is jammed inside the mast, but it will certainly impact your boat control if the sail is jammed outside and refuses to reef.

FWIW I have an aftermarket Europspar in-mast reefing system, which is going to be changed for a battened reefing system as soon as I can. The furling genny is also going to go.

Anyone want a 36 ft mast with in-mast reefing, and a reasonably decent mainsail, and a roller reefing genoa?.
 
We have in mast furling on our boat and find it very handy. They can occasionally stick however is only when bringing out the sail and have never had a problem putting it away. They also only stick due to the sail being badly furled in the first place.

In previous years, we have played around with boom angle (best at 90 degrees) and angle to wind (easiest to bring sail out on close hault angle). This year we discovered that halyard tension also makes a MASSIVE differance, so much so it is easier than ever and has not stuck once yet. The best tension to furl is by lowering the sail down (untill it saggs) then raise hand tight untill the sagg disapears. When unfurled and sailing, the tension should be adjusted to suit. This should be done every time you reef/furl.

You can get vertically battoned sails that are apparently better however ours is the unbattoned type. To set the sail you have to induce as much shape in as possable by...
1. setting your outhaul so there is noticable shape at the bottom of your sail. (26ft boat - about 3ins chord)
2. raise your main sheet track in almost all cases then use your kicker/vang to remove as much flutter as possable (without killing the sail).
3. a noticable amount of leach line tension (more than a normal sail) untill the leach stops fluttering and does not curl the leach.

The inmast furling will never be as eficient as a normal main however we can still get ours to drive not bad. You do have to play with the sail set ALOT more to keep it driving though.

Advantages...
1. no sail cover - dont have to bother each time so is faster to get in and out of marina.
2. fast/easy to bring out.
3. v.fast and safe to reef.

Disadvantages...
1. Posability of sticking.
2. More weight aloft.
3. Raising/dropping mast (it quite a bit heavier).
4. Strong winds from wrong angle can make the mast pump when in harbour.
5. Not as efficient as normal main.

In conclusion, if you are mainly daysailing, in mast furling is brilliant, its easy, fast to reef, put away etc. If you are planning to go offshore sailing, I would stick with normal mains.
 
i had a problem on our previous boat with the sail jammed half in and half out - due to vertical batterns 'spiralling' around the spar.

I adopted an emergency plan already devised, to ease the clew outhaul and literally lash the sail to the mast up as high as I could reach. Then motored into a safe haven to get somebody up the mast and sort it out.

So problems can be managed and not cause disasters, just like many others on board.
 
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I'd go for the in-mast reefing. You may lose a 1/4 knot or so, but if you're cruising it isn't important. A much more important consideration, in my opinion, is the ability to reef without going up to the mast/staggering around on the coachroof. Also, because it's so easy to haul the sail out, compared to sweating it up the mast, we find that we sail a lot more than if we had regular reefing. On those marginal "is it worth putting the sail up" occasions we just do it!


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The performance difference is rather greater than people realise, both in boatspeed and in pointing ability. You will lose most in light airs which will mean more motoring when you might well have sailed because a full in-mast sail equates to the area of a normal sail with the 1st reef in. Why too do people assume that cruisers are happy to go slowly? Of course the secret is never to sail in company with a faster boat, that way leads to misery!

It is also pefectly possible to have a good reefing system that is workable from the cockpit without the need for in-mast. We have a tall rig large sail area with a powerful fully battened mainsail with 3 slab reefs and we do all the reefing from the cockpit using a 2-line system.
 
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If there's a system/component failure in the roller gear / bearings / etc, you could be left with a large chunk of flappy stuff out of control. It might not matter if the sail is jammed inside the mast, but it will certainly impact your boat control if the sail is jammed outside and refuses to reef.

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This is exactly the scenario we had with an aftermarket system (Tab Furling). When the sail was out it sometimes pulled the foil out of the gap in the back of the mast - at this point it was jammed and the only way to get rid of the sail was to lower the halyard which usually forced the foil back into the mast, and then re-hoist the sail and furl it away - not fun in 30 knots of wind!

However, I suspect this was a badly designed system, and the metal casing which housed the foil (which was rivetted to the mast) was probably too weak / damaged which caused the foil to pop out. However, once replaced with a traditional main we never had any problems!

Swings and roundabouts I suppose - we wouldn't have discounted a boat because it had a furling main (provided it was a good one), however if building an 'ideal' boat I would be inclined to go with a fully battened main personally (although that may be the racer as opposed to the cruiser coming out in me!).

Jonny
 
I personally dont think the differance in boat speed is that much differant and is probably down to sail set more than anything. Our main is only slightly smaller than a 'normal' main but no where near a 1st reef size. In races we have done, we are able to race to our handycap (no adjustment for the furling) even with a ton of junk (3x anchors, inflatable, engine, lots of tool/spares etc etc etc). Our boat still out performs many others who dont have inmast furling and are the same size and fin (our is bilge). We have never sailed against a like for like boat though so dont know the actual differance, I think 1/4 kn is probably quite a fair estimate. I think alot of the speed differance depends on sail control and ability.
 
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A much more important consideration, in my opinion, is the ability to reef without going up to the mast/staggering around on the coachroof.

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Why are so many people so scarred of going to the mast?

It's not a big deal! If you're worried about going over, clip on!

And as an asside, my old man's boat has a well set up single line reefing system which also means no trip to the mast and a well set sail.

I know the argument for in mast furling is strong among those of more senior years who view it as a way to keep sailing, and that's fine, with the caviat that a jam under those circumstances could become very serious indeed.

But for those of lesser years who are still fit and active I can see no valid argument for having a system that slows your boat down, adds unnecessary weight aloft and has the potential for a serious snafu.
 
anyone have any experience with round the boom furling.
I have fully battened but the boom is ( i think ) is of the roller type . I may have a look at removing the battens and giving it a try . depends on your opinions
 
We had an EasyReef MaxiRoach system on our Sadler that was excellent. It had vertical battens and offered a pretty good sail shape. The big plus is convenience, a boon for the single-hander. Ours never jammed.

You will find views on these systems extremely polarised and prejudiced with so many opinions often apocryphal or passed on second or third hand. Talking to folk who have them might produce a different view.

You may find that an unbattened in-mast system that has seen better days ( we encountered one on a Croatia charter some years ago) needs a bit more care to avoid a jam. Trying to reef a baggy sail when it has too much wind in it can invite a problem.

The other thing youi should be aware of is that aftermarket add-on systems put more weight upstairs which is not always desirable, but we never a problem with the Sadler.

For blue water I would stick to conventional slab reefing on the basis that you need to keep it simple, but for coastal hops, cross channel etc it's fine. No agonising about "should I reef now, or not?" and good bye to the chore of stowing the mainsail and getting the cover on when you dock. The systems have improved steadily over the years and are now very worthy of consideration.
 
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I know the argument for in mast furling is strong among those of more senior years who view it as a way to keep sailing,

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Listen son! I'm 68 and I wouldn't have in-mast furling if it was a freebie. If a time comes when I can't make it to the mast to put a reef in, then it's time I packed in.

ps sometimes I even make it as far as the foredeck and weigh anchor handraulically. Fantastic stuff, that Sanatogen.
 
I've had round the boom furling on both my boats so far.
I wouldn't use it as a reefing system, you have no outhaul and, unless you use a "yoke" type thingy over the furled sail, no kicker when furled to any degree.
I use reefing eyes in the sail, but "in-extremis" it's nice to know that the sail could be reefed in further than the highest reefing point by releasing the kicker and cranking the handle.
by that stage a kicker would be the least of your problems!

It might not form robust storm sail, but better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick.

added: you don't need to remove the battens unless they are really spiralling round the boom - I have never had to - just be careful about flaking (or rather, rolling) the sail as you furl. Also roller boom makes a really neat job of flaking the sail at the end of the day
 
Thanks guys for all the input - think I'll stick with tradition, on the grounds that as I'm getting a bilge keeler I really don't want to lose any more in the way of speed/pointing. Plus my daddy always said: "Don't buy trouble........"
 
The difference in area lost over a standard sail is reckoned to be about 15% of area and more if you compare with a fully battened main. On a boat with a 250 sqft main the loss is 37sqft which with a 14ft foot/boom is a reef about 2'8" deep so quite a bit I think!

Yes of course a good helm can get more out of any boat, but like for like skill and boat, in light airs the in-mast sail is on a loser purely from sail area and more so when poor set is taken into account. It is difficult to argue with the maths!

So many people these days only really 'sail' in a very limited wind band, F2/3 isn't enough to maintain a good passage speed and F5 (upwind) is too much, so outside of this narrow useable band between say F3/4 and F4/5 the engines go on. Personally I find it very pleasant to be able to sail at a reasonable speed with say 6kts or more windspeed because that means on a nice summer day we are enjoying sailing quietly whilst others are mere mobos.

For sure in-mast is 'convenient' but we (two wrinkly bus pass holders) with a large fully battened main with 3 reefs all from the cockpit and lazyjacks don't find it difficult at all.

Horses for courses and very much personal preference, but the loss of speed like for like IS a factor and the convenience gap can be narrowed significantly with a properly designed slab reefing system.
 
Have sailed a boat with an in-mast reefed sail and also an extra track on which we could set a fully-battened, roached main (while leaving the in-mast sail in the mast). Performance difference was huge - not minor at all... This was an unbattened in-mast hollow-leech sail against a fully-battened with a roach....

It's not just for racing that you want a boat to sail well. The time you most want good performance is in light winds - a fast boat makes the difference between sailing in comfort and silence, to grumbling along under engine or getting frustrated by being slow...
 
Robin - we have in mast furling. I nearly didn't buy the boat because of it. It has however performed faultlessly, once I found out that too much luff tension makes it impossible to furl!.

I think the worst area is the reduction in pointing to windward, which is really noticeable and is very frustrating when sailing in company and your mates are pissing all over you!

However - it means SWMBO is happy - and that is quite important!
 
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