In mast furling or slab reefing ?

Jobs_a_ good_ un

Jobs_a_ good_ un

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www.beneteau393.co.uk
Hi

Things are hoting up on the sail boat quest now (cant say why)
I was thinking of lift keel but as the one I want the southerly is a bit more than I want to pay at the moment weve gone back to fixed keel
If the panel could help me i am trying to find out main advantages/disavantages of in mast furling and slab reefing with lazy jacks
Regards
 
In mast pros - quick and easy (until it jams), infinitely variable size from 100% to 0%, do it all from the cockpit.
In mast cons - might jam and then you're really stuffed, sails generally cut a bit flatter and with less roach so not as powerful as a conventional main.
Slab pros - proven to work over the centuries, almost nothing to go wrong gear wise, three slab option gives a useful range of sail reduction ratios, can be used with a powerfully cut sail.
Slab cons - if arranged for single line reefing can mean lots of friction, if not arranged for single line, might mean going to the mast to reef, reefing actions have to be performed in the right order or operator error muck-ups can arise.

My preference, slab. Why? Fail safe in the event of equipment failure, better mainsail.
 
Absolutely true or course, and my feelings too. I was surprised though last year to find when racing against a mixed fleet that the boats with in-mast reefing seemed to perform as well as "normal" sails. They were, however, using sophisticated sails with vertical battens. I suspect that for local cruising (i.e. not ocean-crossing) the in-mast systems may well be a good choice for many people providing the system is well-constucted and properly managed.
 
Another con of in mast is the centre of gravity remains halfway up the mast. Slab reefing lowers CofG as wind strength increases and you reef which increases stability.

Single line systems can operate very easily with no friction issues, mine was very easy and smooth. You can also have a fully battened main which provides a better shape andn less wear from flogging, although you have to watch for chafing on spreaders.
 
I agree, slab for simplicity and better shaped sail.

This obsession with leading everything back to the cockpit to avoid a trip to the mast is not seamanlike. I can understand why people want to avoid going onto the foredeck in bad weather to handle sails so I can see why rollerfurling headsails are so popular despite their drawbacks - bad sail shape, fails unsafe, excessive windage and complication of flying a storm jib. However, I can't see why sailors are becoming afraid of a trip to the mast. All that spaghetti in the cockpit and the winches, cleats and blocks to handle it all is contrary to the keep it simple ethos that cruising sailors should embrace. There is just so much to go wrong!
Single handing boats set up this way is a real pain; you go to the mast to attach the halyard, you take the sail ties off, so the sail billows all over the deck while you go back to the cockpit to hoist. A cockle in the line, a batten snagged on a shroud and you have to go back to the mast to free it. It's so exhausting. At the mast you have everything you need to do the hoist efficiently, to reef efficiently and get all your line ends tidied up and stowed in a seamanlike manner.
Single line reefing is an instrument of the devil - all that friction, all that line, all those blocks.
I may be a Ludite but IMHO many of the developments in sailing gear attempt to replace good seamanship with shiny toys that let you down when you really need them.

Keep it simple!
 
Let me be the devil's advocate and vote for in mast reefing, particularly if you are short handed (ie typical husband and wife cruising team).

I do acknowledge that if it jams you could have problems.

With other systems of reefing if you leave the decision to reef a bit late you often have a hairy visit to the mast to put a reef in. Will roller reefing it is all done from the safety of the cockpit and , as has already been stated you have an infinitely variable rig.

Furling reefing is so easy it encourages you to reef little and often

Finally as a lazy man, it is so convenient to wind it up into the mast out of the way in seconds at the end of a sail.
 
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I do acknowledge that if it jams you could have problems

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If it wasn't for your second paragraph I would have it fitted next week. But if it does jam - what can you do?

Also if it goes wrong you may be held up waiting for special spare parts whereas all the bits associated with normal reefing can be bought at any chandlery, or possibly improvised from what you have on board.
 
I am with you 100%, I have all my lines at the mast, with a rod kicker, reefing is quick simple and easy. If you are getting a rough ride, you left it too late and you simply need to heave to whilst reefing. If you can't heave to, you bought the wrong boat"! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
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Let me be the devil's advocate and vote for in mast reefing, particularly if you are short handed (ie typical husband and wife cruising team).


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Don't see your point - most of the time, there's just 2 of us: my eldest (15) and me; slab reefing, 3 reefing lines, everything at the mast - never had any problem.
 
I had the worst of both worlds when we bought the boat. Hooks and reef penants at the gooseneck but halyard, topping lift and kicker back to the cockpit. I took the reef penants back to the cockpit, fitted a second set of penants to the luff cringles (to replace the hooks) and lead them back to the cockpit as well. Now have two line slab reefing from the cockpit. I can pull them down or shake them out on any point of sailing without rounding up in to the wind.
Yes it's a lot of ropes in the cockpit. The best solution I've found is lots of those Seasure "Rope Tidy" things to hang the coils on.
 
We have had slab reefing with all lines led to the cockpit for about 15 years, on two boats. Friction is low, we have never had the slightest problem with any part of it. Either of us can reef, on virtually any point of sailing, in about 30 seconds total.

The main advantage that we see in in-mast reefing, now probably the most prevalent system in the Med, is that it saves a lot of time in taking off the cover and hoisting the main. Similarly at the end of a passage. Not a problem for a good day's sail but if going a short distance we often make do with the genoa only, whereas with in-mast we would use both sails.
 
Assuming we are talking about family cruising, I would say it depends or what kind of sailing you envisage doing.

In-mast truly is a godsend if you are short-handed and want less hassle etc. The real benefit for me is that it gets me out on the water more often, particularly for short or day sails. It also helps me sail singlehanded reasonably frequently as well. So difficult to argue against a system that allows you to make more use of your expensive investment - isn't that what sailing is about?

If I was doing long passage work away from modern amenities then I would probably go slab reefing for the reliability and performance factor. However I reckon 95% of people don't really do this. For example I typically sail down to La Rochelle and might do 1200 miles in my summer cruise, but I don't consider that long passage sailing, cause I rarely do more than 24 hours in one go.

I have had in mast for 4 seasons now and haven't had a single jam. Issues are usually operator related. With modern systems, jams are easy to avoid.
 
In-Mast furling gets my vote, and I've used both for years...

Keeping tension on the outhaul when furling, or on the furling line when deploying the sail will prevent a jam. In a season with this boat and 3 seasons with the previous one, I've never had a jamb.. (please don't let this comment trigger Murphy's Law!!)

My topping lift never needs adjusting - one less thing to worry about (although we do have a sprung rod-kicker).

I can deal with the main singlehanded in all weathers (which is good when one's SWMBO is about 7 stone wet through!!) and furl when surfing downwind on a broad reach at 8 kts without drama....great when the mistral catches you unawares on a med trip!!

Doesn't work for the purist in me that says fully battened mains with big roaches aare the order of the day, but as one half of a sailing partnership, it has kept me in marital harmony!!

Good luck whichever you choose!!

Nick
 
Maybe a bit extreme isn't it?....There are lots of things that i've had happen on boats, but it wouldn't stop me using them... let alone getting on them to start with!!!!!

Had a lead acid battery explode, but still happy to sail a boat with lead acid batteries.... snapped a tiller in half, but still happy to sail a boat with a tiller....
both of which are potentially dangerous failures....

As an aside, I had a masthead sheave disintegrate, and jam the main right up the mast..... had to send someone to the masthead in a bosuns chair in a F5 to cut the halyard, and then had a nightmare getting the main down...
 
i prefer slab reefing pref with fully battened main but i wouldn't let in mast put me off an otherwise good boat some people sware by it and some systems are said to be reefable no problem on the run!
 
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