In Mast Furling Criticism

jimbaerselman

jimbaerselman

Well-Known Member
Joined
18 Apr 2006
Messages
4,433
Location
Greece in Summer, Southampton in Winter
www.jimbsail.info
In the thread about loose footed mainsails, a criticism of in mast furling systems arose:

"My impression is that, fortunately, the owners of boats fitted with in-mast furling tend to avoid heavy weather"

I found it difficult to imagine how that criticism arose, since my experience and knowledge was the opposite. Two points: first, many such vessels have circled the world; second, reefing is so easy that when I'm short handed I make passages with far worse weather threats than I would with slab reefing. However, it's obvious that others have a different point of view.

Now, I have experience of only two makes of in mast furlers (albeit with lots of boats), but so far all problems I've heard about seem to have straightforward causes, mostly caused by the sail being 'out of specification'. In order of frequency these were:
1. Baggy mainsail
2. Mainsail not in specification for roller system:
2. a. heavier weight
2. b. wrong design head/tack tapes
3. Furler rod incorrectly tensioned
4. Mast bend

This implies that users need to be more critical of their sails and rig than with slab reefing systems, which is a legitimate criticism.

Anything else?
 
[ QUOTE ]
In the thread about loose footed mainsails, a criticism of in mast furling systems arose:

"My impression is that, fortunately, the owners of boats fitted with in-mast furling tend to avoid heavy weather"

I found it difficult to imagine how that criticism arose, since my experience and knowledge was the opposite. Two points: first, many such vessels have circled the world; second, reefing is so easy that when I'm short handed I make passages with far worse weather threats than I would with slab reefing. However, it's obvious that others have a different point of view.

?

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with you entirely, for long distance work my inmast furling has revolutionised our cruising. (I was a misinformed sceptic until we bought a boat with inmast)

As for the comment about heavy weather, thats tosh. Like you the ability to reef to my exact requirements, short handed with no going to the mast in a pitching sea, has allowed for longer passages in heavier weather. Watches are better with more rest in between as crew not required on deck to help reef.

I also like the control the loose foot gives.
 
I'd add another common cause of problems:-

2 c Incorrect angle between luff and foot of sail (causes excess build-up of sail when reefing).
 
If you have a baggy main will a inmast system jam? Do you have to come into wind before reefing? Or dose it work much as for sail roller reefing?

If a new sail is advisable would it be cut differently to a slab reef main?If you had just bought a new gleeming main could that be use with roller reefing?
 
as I wrote the comment

could I correct the impression that I was necessarily criticising in-mast furling systems.

Rather it was a (factual) comment on the owners of boats equipped with in-mast furling.

Look at the facts:-

A vertically furling mainsail has to have a concave leech, thus reducing sail area (unless you have vertical battens to extend the roach, which the majority do not have).

furling systems appreciably reduce physical effort needed to raise/lower the main, therefore tend to be used by short-handed or physically challenged crews

Mast bend is out, therefore mainsail shape-control is reduced.

Concomitant on those facts;-

Virtually no racing boats are equipped with in-mast furling.

Short-handed, or physically challenged crews tend to behave prudently and avoid heavy weather.

The comment about in-mast furling boats having circumnavigated is not in dispute and surely irrelevant to the point being made. Circumnavigation does not, necessarily, mean sailing in heavy weather.

I hope this clears up any misunderstanding.

I trust we could agree on the following:-

1. Nearly all, modern, in-mast systems are trouble-free (I specifically exclude retrofit external systems which, IMHO, are highly suspect).
2. The use of an in-mast reefer dramatically reduces (by about 85%) the work required in sailing a boat.
3. Providing the boat has been designed to accept the reefing system, there is only a small reduction in sailing performance.

I hope we don't part company on the following

1. For a fractional-rig, performance boat, in-mast furling is a bodge - either it jams or you can't use mast bend to control sail-shape.
2. In-mast reefing loses sail area and therefore light-weather performance on any boat.
3. You cannot improve aerofoil shape and drive by having battens (vertical battens only support additional roach and do nothing for sail shape).

So by deduction, in-mast reefing is for those who prefer convenience to performance, for conservatively rigged boats, sailed by those who prefer comfort to an adrenaline buzz.

You can, have the best of both worlds, a stackpak, full battened main, with single-line reefing giving you vastly greater and more efficient drive, at the effort-cost of having to lift and drop the main each passage you make.

One could, with some justification, condemn a fractional-rigged, lightweight, single-hander sloop as a totally impractical cruising boat. But that's what I prefer.

Chacun a son gout.
 
Re: as I wrote the comment

Don't agree with you at all. The convenience of being able to reef easily means that even when single handed sailing I can carry full sail for a lot longer as I reef WHEN I need to not BEFORE I need to. It also means I can return to full sail earlier when the gale passes. Being caught with too much sail up with conventional reefing is dangerous. With in mast reefing it isn't. just turn up to windward momentarily, pull on the string, back to your heading and off we go again. By the way I also have vertical battens which gives some roach and when I built the boat I added a metre to the mast height to make up for the lack of full roach. That's just detail though. I claim I go faster most of the time with this set up than I would with conventional reefing unless in very light airs..... It's not for racing though. Racing boats have gorillas on board. But when cruising it allows the average crew to get more performance out of his boat without stress. And by the way I don't run for cover as soon as the wind comes up. I don't need to!
 
Re: as I wrote the comment

Most of your points I agree. One of your logic steps is a little sweeping: [ QUOTE ]
2. In-mast reefing loses sail area and therefore light-weather performance on any boat

[/ QUOTE ] If you're designing for in mast reefing, you'll compensate with a slightly taller mast and a bit more ballast, which will restore your light wind performance. Although, yes, there's always a slight penalty going to windward, cos the main isn't an optimum shape. [ QUOTE ]
So by deduction, in-mast reefing is for those who prefer convenience to performance, for conservatively rigged boats, sailed by those who prefer comfort to an adrenaline buzz.


[/ QUOTE ] Now I think that's a naughty conclusion. How about the following statement:

In mast reefing is for those who like the adrenaline buzz of sailing in more challenging conditions, when the convenience of reefing gives them the edge over more conservative rigs . . .
 
Re: as I wrote the comment

but if it jams when ya getting ya adrenaline buzz sailing short handed ya well and truly bu***rd cos lets face no matter how much you look at the pro's & cons ( which all systems have ) simplicity has to win hands down, and good old slab is simple and effective.

I remember reading of a guy who had in mast reefing with virtical seams ....seam parted and couldn't reef the sail in other then up to the parted seam so was stuck with about 80% of his main flappin in the wind.
 
Re: as I wrote the comment

Its enough to put anyone off sailing!Slab reefings never been my faveroit as i must do the ties which take what seems for ages i hoped i could just put up a roller furler and add a mainsail then reef in comfort!

How do you tention a rolling system?Ive come to the conclution that a FB isent a suitable boat for a rolling system!

So far when the winds picked up ive just had to put up with less comfort i hope thats the way it is the thought of reefing on a pitching deck with spray flyings not pleasant!!

Perhaps if i open the locker marked "woman" that could be the solution on a rough passage??Normaly they are so veratile they can do anything if kept in good working order????
 
slab reefing

Don't abandon hope Trouville.

Also don't confuse round-boom roller reefing with in-mast reefing.
The first is an invention of the devil (very like oxford bags).

In-mast reefing is fairly effective, roller boom reefing appalling unless you have a specially shaped boom and a sail cut to suit.

Slab reefing is still the most efficient way of main control - but suffers from the major disadvantage of having to leap to the mast, get saturated and risk sweeping overboard.

However, have a look at the Harken.com site where they have/had a very practical way of rigging a single line reef. I have it on my 1st of 4 reefs (very oversize main) and it's a wonderful, quick, safe, comfortable way of reefing and adjusting sail shape.

Ideal for a Folkboat!!

Wimmen are great, providing sufficiently well lubricated - use G&T not WD40 is.
 
Re: slab reefing

Im off to have a look!I get into trouble when plying my female with G&T, shes French, and dosent think much of drinking!One glass of wine! if I drink more,by now she will tell me later that its bad for me and one glass a day equals an alcoholic!!
I know why French men go hunting! By now so do the French wives and try to forbid it!!!Its to drink! At least French woman respect their men?? that is they dont "nag" they wait for a moment such as when someones just died of stroke and then express their worries!!!!Thats dose impress and i give up for a few weeks.

I was thinking that contries that respect woman do well but muslim and african contries that treat woman with contempt a chattel worth less than a animal are in a dredful mess.
 
Re: slab reefing

Take your point re countries who respect women etc..dont think Charles was being in anyway disrespectful just a male joke thing, women love to return the compliment.
 
Hello, I'm a newcomer to this forum. I live in Sardinia (italy) so my English is not good, and you will excuse this fact.
Coming to the topic: I have a Beneteau Oceanis 311 with furling mast and I am seriously thinking about the ipothesis of changing to a traditional mast. The cause: every time I have to unfurl the mainsail, it jams and stops from unfurl. This happens with the first part of the sail, so I have to go to the mast and un-jam the sail by pulling hand, then all the unfurling operations go on well.
Furthermore, the effort needed to furl and unfurl is too great, but I am a normal 56 yo man that normally sails with other yachts and not-furling salis.
Can you help me in tracing the problem, and find a solution?
Thanks,
Cazzascotta
 
The mast must be absolutely straight with no bend, and the tension in the furling "thing", (the rod inside the mast), must be just right... not too loose and not too tight.

When my mast went back up in June, the riggers spent a lot of time making sure it was dead straight... which I had to trust to their skill as I cannot tell if a mast has a slight bend.

When we left on the first trip, the sail jammed like yours.... I played with the tension of the furling "thing" and eventually found the right tension. It's been fine since, (and its been in and out like I dont know what).

It's almost impossible to reef on a run, but with the sail away from the spreaders, it works a treat.
 
ok, thank you. But... this means I have to adjust the backstay until the mast is perfectly vertical? Is not this situation a potential risk? I have always thought that a mast lightly bended towards the aft could help the sail control, and my boat has a backstay without any regulation mechanism, so the mast is actually lightly aft-bended.
I'll think about and try.
By, thanks.
 
Definitely, you need a straight mast. Otherwise, when you unroll, the tube of rolled sail inside the mast rubs against the mast and partly unrolls inside the mast, then jams.

Once you have a straight mast, if the problem still exists, check the sail is not 'baggy', stretched in the middle. If it is, creases (little folds) will develop in the sail as you roll it up, and these will jam inside the mast when you unroll again. If you have these creases, your sail maker will have to re-sew some of the seams to remove the bag and make the sail flat.
 
The point made by the other forum sailors is that the mast must be "straight", that means no bend in it. It does NOT have to be perfectly vertical. It can have a rake/lean to the aft so long as it does not have a bend in it. You may need to adjust the lower shrouds to remove any bend in the mast.

Ray
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top