In Boom furling - not very popular - why?

[BlueSkyNick]

a large number of production boats now have inmast furling as standard or an option. very few have in-boom furling. It seems to be more common on bigger boats, some being high performance.

what's wrong with having in boom furling on a mid-range cruising boat?

 

[fireball]

Size/weight of the boom, cut of the sail ?

 

[robp]

I know an experienced yachtsman who changed from in mast, to in boom, because he wanted horizontal battens and of course a better sail shape. After a year or so he abandoned it due to the effort needed to raise sail.

Wasn't there a thread on this recently?

 

[BlueSkyNick]

I know an experienced yachtsman who changed from in mast, to in boom, because he wanted horizontal battens and of course a better sail shape. After a year or so he abandoned it due to the effort needed to raise sail.

Wasn't there a thread on this recently?

Just searched - there was at the back end of July as a thread drift of on the subject on in mast furling. Based on the regular recurrence of other subjects, i dont feel quite so bad!

Hadnt thought about the weight issue.

 

[Tranona]

Think I said at the time of the last thread, there seems to be no clear benefit over and above the simpler alternative. There are clearly perceived benefits, however, several manufacturers have had a go at popularising them without real success. In the days of homogeneity in production boat design, you would think that at least one manufacturer would offer them as a differentiator, but presumably customers are happy with the choices currently on offer.

 

[Joker]

This was popular in the 70s when rotating booms were the rage - you rolled the main round the boom to reef.

 

[BrianH]

This was popular in the 70s when rotating booms were the rage - you rolled the main round the boom to reef.

There's just no comparison to that old and clumsy system - I know, I've had both, in fact I still have the in-boom. It was a sod to get to roll without folding at first but I seem to have cracked it this year by being sure that the sail has no real weight of wind in it while reefing.

My thread drift posting referred to above is here.

 

[Coaster]

I recently considered in-boom reefing, specifically the Profurl system. Apart from cost (we were quoted in excess of £6,000 for a 34' boat - before adding fitting and VAT) the bulky appearance was the main deterrent. If I remember rightly, the boom section is roughly triangular, about 12" by 12".

Not for me.

 

[BrianH]

I recently considered in-boom reefing, specifically the Profurl system. Apart from cost (we were quoted in excess of £6,000 for a 34' boat - before adding fitting and VAT) the bulky appearance was the main deterrent. If I remember rightly, the boom section is roughly triangular, about 12" by 12".
Not for me.

The boom section is little more than the rolled sail at it's thickest point, at the luff - depends on what section is ordered, I could make do with the smallest (MK0) on my 9.4m boat. The prices for the larger sections escalate alarmingly. However, it does make a great cruising rain-catcher if tapped off into a canister.

That price is ridiculous. But I presume it included a new mainsail, which is usually required - still way too high.

 

[tcm]

In-boom has the advantage of allowing lovely fully battened sail - but disadvantage of in-built design flaw. Essentially, with main down the entire mechanism and the sail sit in their soggy/salty state. Contrast with in-mast which has the the masive advantage of whoosh mainsail in seconds and whilst still in the cockpit AND the easier draining of moisture etc from in-mast and i suppose in-boom is a bit doomed, at least for smaller cruisers. Big boats i like the shaped boom instead of beam boom, but just flakedown sail.

 

[BrianH]

In-boom has the advantage of allowing lovely fully battened sail - but disadvantage of in-built design flaw. Essentially, with main down the entire mechanism and the sail sit in their soggy/salty state.

Not with a very simple, easily and quickly fitted boom cover they don't.

 

[prv]

I seem to have cracked it this year by being sure that the sail has no real weight of wind in it while reefing.

There's one good reason not to have it then.

I can reef on any point of sail.

Pete

 

[BrianH]

There's one good reason not to have it then.

I can reef on any point of sail.

Pete

Yes, a definite advantage over any boom reefing, where the sail should be head to wind.

The problem comes from if the sail is driving then it forces itself forwards and folds itself at the luff. Well, my one does, I don't know how generic that is and I'm far from satisfied with the cut of the main, it may just be this sail.

It doesn't matter how much it is flogging in a strong wind, providing it is head to wind it will drop and roll perfectly.

To be fair, most yachts without in-mast reefing, will round up into wind to drop their mainsails. It isn't just an in-boom thing.

 

[dunedin]

In-boom has the advantage of allowing lovely fully battened sail - but disadvantage of in-built design flaw. Essentially, with main down the entire mechanism and the sail sit in their soggy/salty state. Contrast with in-mast which has the the masive advantage of whoosh mainsail in seconds and whilst still in the cockpit AND the easier draining of moisture etc from in-mast and i suppose in-boom is a bit doomed, at least for smaller cruisers. Big boats i like the shaped boom instead of beam boom, but just flakedown sail.

On the other hand, in mast reefing has some major disadvantages
(a) extra weight high up, for the furling drum
(b) potentially major flaw that very difficult to drop sail if jambs part furled (with in boom can simply drop manually)
(c) poor performance due to lack of efective downhaul tension control and lack or roach (the latter partially addressed by vertical batten versions)

But it is the sailing ineficiency that puts me off in-mast furling. In the past 5 years since observing this, we have NEVER ONCE been overtaken upwind by a yacht with furling mainsail, irrespective of boat length. In boom furling is at least more efficienct

 

[Tranona]

On the other hand, in mast reefing has some major disadvantages
(a) extra weight high up, for the furling drum
(b) potentially major flaw that very difficult to drop sail if jambs part furled (with in boom can simply drop manually)
(c) poor performance due to lack of efective downhaul tension control and lack or roach (the latter partially addressed by vertical batten versions)

But it is the sailing ineficiency that puts me off in-mast furling. In the past 5 years since observing this, we have NEVER ONCE been overtaken upwind by a yacht with furling mainsail, irrespective of boat length. In boom furling is at least more efficienct

This subject has been done to death over the years. You are starting from the assumption that sailing "efficiency" by which I assume you mean speed particularly to windward is the most important criteria.

However, for many this is not. Ease of handling, ability to adjust sail to conditions and comfortable passage making are just as important for many people and in mast furling wins hands down, particularly for a shorthanded crew.

The issues of jamming and weight aloft are overstated. Properly designed OE installations take the weight issue into account and jamming is not normally an issue once (like any other system) your learn how to use it properly.

If the system were so awful why are the majority of new cruising yachts fitted with the system? and people prepared on some boats to pay a premium?

 

[Ubergeekian]

If the system were so awful why are the majority of new cruising yachts fitted with the system? and people prepared on some boats to pay a premium?

Perhaps because on most new cruising yachts sailing performance is very much a secondary consideration? I'm thinking of the ones which spend most of their lifes in their home marinas, motor most of the time (not least to keep the calorifier, inverter, refrigerator and so on going) and only occasionally stick up a sail or two if the wind is in just the right direction and they aren't in a hurry.

 

[robp]

This subject has been done to death over the years. You are starting from the assumption that sailing "efficiency" by which I assume you mean speed particularly to windward is the most important criteria.

However, for many this is not. Ease of handling, ability to adjust sail to conditions and comfortable passage making are just as important for many people and in mast furling wins hands down, particularly for a shorthanded crew.

The issues of jamming and weight aloft are overstated. Properly designed OE installations take the weight issue into account and jamming is not normally an issue once (like any other system) your learn how to use it properly.

If the system were so awful why are the majority of new cruising yachts fitted with the system? and people prepared on some boats to pay a premium?

You are correct in that the systems are not awful nowadays and I can't see where there is a massive weight aloft. My Sparcraft system has an ally foil on which the sail rolls and a swivel block to which the head is shackled. The foil is about 45mm diameter and is very light.

It was standard equipment on my Bene when new in 1998 and I would have had to pay about GBP2,600 extra for slab reefing, (which I had previously). At the time and with three boys including one of five I was happy to accept it. I pretty soon bought Maxiroach main and genoa and in general it has been fine, having learnt the best way of handling it.

One thing you should remember to do, is slightly slacken off the halyard on leaving the boat. This is easily forgotten and would have preserved the sail better.
The other is not to let the sail unfurl quickly by itself. (Sometimes one is pleased to see it all come out and get on with things). After twelve years I had to reassemble the swivel block, probably due to this.

So like all systems, it is not fit and forget.

Next time? If there ever is one - I would probably go back to slab reefing with lazy jacks, even single handed which I enjoy. Sail shape, easier sail care and actually I think, less to worry about.

Sorry for the drift away from Nick's in boom question but I guess it's relevent.

 

[Tranona]

Perhaps because on most new cruising yachts sailing performance is very much a secondary consideration? I'm thinking of the ones which spend most of their lifes in their home marinas, motor most of the time (not least to keep the calorifier, inverter, refrigerator and so on going) and only occasionally stick up a sail or two if the wind is in just the right direction and they aren't in a hurry.

There is, of course an element of truth in that.

The great thing about sailing yachts is their sheer versatility. You can set them up in a way that squeezes the last ounce out of the hull in sailing performance to satisfy inveterate tweekers like Flaming and Robin of this parish. You can set them up for easy handling and comfortable passage making (even if it is only drifting from taverna to taverna) for people like me. Or you can maximise the vast space in modern hulls to use them as country cottages. Guess the majority of purchasers inhabit the middle ground somewhere near me.

The really smart builders such as Benny and Jenny cover all three sectors, often with the same basic hull, but different combinations of rigs and accommodation plans to cover all sectors of the market in just the same way as the mass production car makers.

Isn't consumerism wonderful? Imagine what the nautical version of a Lada or Trabant might look like.

 

[prv]

I can reef on any point of sail.

Yes, a definite advantage over any boom reefing, where the sail should be head to wind.

My system is straightforward slab reefing, with the pendants run to the cockpit.

The problem comes from if the sail is driving then it forces itself forwards and folds itself at the luff. Well, my one does, I don't know how generic that is

My secret is mast hoops - the luff of the sail can rotate right round the mast.

Pete

 

[BrianH]

My system is straightforward slab reefing, with the pendants run to the cockpit.
My secret is mast hoops - the luff of the sail can rotate right round the mast.

Shortly after posting I realised I had committed the cardinal sin of ignoring traditional rigs. Mast hoops and gaff mainsails have a decided advantage in off-wind reefing or dousing sail.

Actually, as I posted in another thread, the Profurl in-boom system utilises an articulating luff track that greatly facilitates reefing off wind. Enough so that I can now reef the mainsail with halyard and reefing lines led back to the cockpit while still sailing on the headsail. Before, with the mainsail in a mast luff slot, I had to start the engine and engage the autopilot to keep head to wind before going up to the mast to begin reefing.

Such are the travails of single-handing.