Important Decision.....Help Needed

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mrgrumpy2

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I am very close to finalising my new boat purchase which is a 2 year old american 35ft sports cruiser. I have just discovered that the RCD rating is only category 'C' and this is giving me great concern regarding its capabilities and suitabilty for our waters. The RCD 'C' rates it for inshore use and to a wave height of only 2 metres....this is my major worry. I would have expected it to be a Cat 'B' rating (4 metre wave height). It ticks every other box for the family and therefore I would greatly appreciate your opinions on whether people feel it would be an advisable purchase in terms of safety for use in the Thames Estuary, occasional longer trips and how the RCD rating would potentially put-off prospective buyers if I choose to sell it at a later date.....Thanks in advance as I'm not sure what to do for the best.
 
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and how the RCD rating would potentially put-off prospective buyers if I choose to sell it at a later date

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If it is making you think twice, it will have the same effect on others.

From your brief comments, and my own life experiences, I would guess that you will have some regrets once you have completed the purchase.

Surely there are many other boats available which will also tick the boxes, (or maybe untick a less important box).
 
You have to understand that a CE rating does not define what a boat can or cant take, but more the level that it has been tested to.

Its not like NCAP for cars, where they are all tested to the same limit then scored accordingly. A boat manufacturer may say, 'test this to Cat D please' and the testers will say pass/fail.

The higher the test, the more the cost. Lots of non-EU boats are only tested to CAT C for cost reasons. Chapparel probably dont sell many of that model in Europe, but to be legally sold they must be CE cdertified so the builder (or importer) may choose to have it conform to a CAT C. Doesnt mean it wont be as good as a CAT B boat (or infact better in some cases).

Give you a couple of real world cases. My current boat is a CAT C. its 24ft in length from a small Swedish yard. They produce about 40 units a year and it was deemed financially unviable to go for CAT B with this boat as they dont build/sell enough units and CAT C is generally acceptable for a boat of this size.

Now a few years ago I owned a 28ft Bayliner. Nice boat, but built to a budget. CE rating was CAT B, as Brunswick build thousands a year so the extra unit cost was neglegible.

Now, my Bayliner was a CAT B, A Fariline Targa 38 is a CAT B and so is a Princess P67. Can they all handle the same conditions? Hell no, despite all being CAT B.

In fact (and several forumites including Solitare, Roger Rat and RickP) my current CAT C boat will handle more and give a better ride than my CAT B Bayliner. Ive been out on both in the rough and felt it for myself.

The whole RCD thing is horribly misleading for buyers imho as it does not exhaustively test each boat. In fact, builders dont have to test a boat, they can meerly declare that in their oppinion it conforms to the classification.

If you like the boat, and it does what you want it to then dont be swayed by CE ratings. They are, on the whole, worthless and only incdicate that the builder has used CE marked compenents where required. AFAIK the US Coatsguard certification that US boats have to conform to is far more stringent anyway.
 
Beautiful boat and i dont understand what your problem is exactly. JRB has hit the nail on the head with a perfect explanation. This CE certification stuff is total nonense and it would have no impact on whether i bought something or not.
That is a well built boat your looking to purchase. How many 2metre waves have you seen on the Thames then? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Would you even want to be out on a 1 metre swell,i wouldn't,not really. I think its fair and safe to assume it would handle more ; the question is, could you,probably not. Go and buy it, and enjoy it because thats a lovely looking boat.
 
One thing worth remembering when considering the RCD category is that in itself, the RCD category of a boat is NOT a true indication of the boats capabilities.

It isn't that the boat is tested and the appropriate category issued. That is not how the category is issued. Instead, the person who is submitting the boat for certification must decide what category they want to have the boat certified for before the test and then they apply for the boat to be test in that category.

In other words... the original certifier can choose to have the boat certified in any category and if it passes then that is the category it gets.

Because of that the RCD category should not really be used as an indicator to actual performance... only evidence that it did pass a certain category requirement on the day it was tested, with the load it had on the test on that day. Different loading, different conditions or inexperienced handling might mean that the boat might handle worse conditions or might not handle better conditions. Caution is needed.

However, even if the boat could handle worse conditons, should an incident occur that required insurance getting involved then operating outside the RCD category could give the insurance a get-out.

Regardless of the actual capabilities of the boat you might want to think carefully about operating the boat outside the RCD category.
 
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However, even if the boat could handle worse conditons, should an incident occur that required insurance getting involved then operating outside the RCD category could give the insurance a get-out.

Regardless of the actual capabilities of the boat you might want to think carefully about operating the boat outside the RCD category.

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Im sorry Paul but that simply isnt true. i agree with everything else you say, but the RCD catagory carries no legal restriction to use and there is no basis for an insurance company to restrict a claim on the basis of RCD.
 
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However, even if the boat could handle worse conditons, should an incident occur that required insurance getting involved then operating outside the RCD category could give the insurance a get-out.

Regardless of the actual capabilities of the boat you might want to think carefully about operating the boat outside the RCD category.

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Im sorry Paul but that simply isnt true. i agree with everything else you say, but the RCD catagory carries no legal restriction to use and there is no basis for an insurance company to restrict a claim on the basis of RCD.

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I suppose when you tell your insurance company what boat you have got, and they give you the area you are restricted to, (e.g.Brest to Elbe, or whatever), they have expressly agreed to its' use in all of that area.

On the other hand, you have to make them aware of any material fact. It would seem that the RCD is a material fact, which they then have to make a decision about.

Might be worth asking for insurance quotes from a few insurers and see what they say - always being up front with the RCD category.
 
Do you tell you car insurer what NCAP rating your car has? I mean, if it has a poor score for pedestrain safety and you knock someone over the injury claim could be bigger on a poor performing car.

Or do you expect them to understand the industry in which they offer their services and make a descision provided you have answered all their question correctly.

RCD is just the same, when you say 'I have a Chapparel 330' then you are declaring the RCD catagory because all boats will be rated the same.

The only time I can see the remotest chance that there might be a grain of rationality in what you say would be in the case of a grey import where the individual has had the boat CE marked and the subsequent catagory is differnet from those boats produced by the factory.

On a seperate note, once again RCD and RCD Catagorys cause more confusion and provide less help to owners and buyers...
 
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Do you tell you car insurer what NCAP rating your car has?

RCD is just the same, when you say 'I have a Chapparel 330' then you are declaring the RCD catagory because all boats will be rated the same.

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First question - No... dont even know what it is.

Second Question - If they know the industry, and therefore know the RCD, it matters not if you declare it. If they dont know the RCD, or dont consider it, it may appear as a material fact at claim time. It's no big deal to make it clear on a proposal, and it puts a mind at rest.

The fact that the OP has a concern suggests that he should cover his bases pre-purchase, or buyers remorse may set in.
 
Most of the popular US built sport cruisers will be Cat C. So I think the better question would be what other boats are available to you in addition to the Chaparral 330?

Kelly Cook
 
"How many 2metre waves have you seen on the Thames then? "

Given a decent ebb and an nice East F 3/4 and far far to many of the blooming horrid things will magically appear before you very eyes from one end of Sea Reach to the other.
This will ensure that everything from your best crockery to your plasma TV will end up in the lowest part of the boat half way down. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
"an advisable purchase in terms of safety for use in the Thames Estuary, occasional longer trips"

he is also planning to leave the Thames Estuary for longer trips, so 2 metre + waves are a strong possibility from time to time.
 
Do you feel like giving an indication why insurance would be a problem, rather than just adding confusion to the situation.

If you declare the boat is a 2 year ol Chapparrel 330 and they offer you insurance for coatsal use from Brest to Elb and you provide the correct information about vessel and your experience there is nothing to check. you are insured as you have declared the vessel, your location, crusing grounds and experience.

Unless you actually know any different?
 
Thanks very much as always for all the constructive and informative input..... I feel assured by the general tone of the forum and will be proceeding at pace with the purchase....Roll on the summer!!! Just out of curiousity, does anyone know how I can establish what the US coastguard rating is for this and other US sportcruisers?
 
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