Andrew_Trayfoot
Well-Known Member
Bumped into this whilst reserching copperbot:
http://www.solentcrisis.co.uk/page96.html
Any Comments?
http://www.solentcrisis.co.uk/page96.html
Any Comments?
Illegal Charters?
- Thread starter Andrew_Trayfoot
- Start date
jb2006
Well-Known Member
I am not convinced - but it is the kind of crap we have come to expect /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif
TigaWave
Well-Known Member
I think this article is wrong, at least it would have been three or four years ago. You were allowed to charter a yacht out privately if it was not making a profit, and just offset running costs. There is some detail and interpretation of "not a commercial enterprise" I don't think the rules have changed since 2003.
In recent years there has been some scaremongering I feel, giving the impression that to lend a boat you needed mca codeing etc and that mca codeing was an expensive complex process. Most is from misinformation.
Not for profit boats could still be chartered and a charter fee charged, as long as it just covered costs of owning or running the vessel, no codeing required.
You are of course always subject to your own insurance companies policy conditions, but French or Irish authorities should have no problem with casual not for profit chartering.
However if the rules have changed hopefully someone can provide the details of what is now the case.
In recent years there has been some scaremongering I feel, giving the impression that to lend a boat you needed mca codeing etc and that mca codeing was an expensive complex process. Most is from misinformation.
Not for profit boats could still be chartered and a charter fee charged, as long as it just covered costs of owning or running the vessel, no codeing required.
You are of course always subject to your own insurance companies policy conditions, but French or Irish authorities should have no problem with casual not for profit chartering.
However if the rules have changed hopefully someone can provide the details of what is now the case.
roly_voya
Well-Known Member
The 'not for profit' is an area to be carful of, you can accept contributions to running costs or lend the boat to a freind but if you went as far as 'not for profit' in the sense used by charities then you would need coding. Don't now if there is a hard line, it's probably something for the lawyers to argue over if it goes wrong but I definatly would not do anything involving advertising. In any case the code is mostly just good practice so if you did want to do something marginal then would probably be a good idea to get the boat coded anyway then there is no question.
TigaWave
Well-Known Member
| agree you can ask for a contribution to costs incurred in the votage that the boat is being used for, detailed as direct costs.
But the website article and comments suggest that lending a yacht to a friend is an illegal charter. This not the case even if you get them to pay for any fuel used and any mooring costs or fees in delivering th eboat or bringing it back. It comes under the merchant shipping act as below.
"pleasure vessel" means—
(i) any vessel which at the time it is being used is:
(a)
(i) in the case of a vessel wholly owned by an individual or individuals is used only for the sport or pleasure of the owner or the immediate family or friends of the owner; or
(ii) in the case of a vessel owned by a body corporate, the persons on the vessel are employees or officers of the body corporate, or their immediate family or friends; and
(b) on a voyage or excursion which is one for which the owner does not receive money for or in connection with operating the vessel or carrying any person, other than as a contribution to the direct expenses of the operation of the vessel incurred during the voyage or excursion; or
But the website article and comments suggest that lending a yacht to a friend is an illegal charter. This not the case even if you get them to pay for any fuel used and any mooring costs or fees in delivering th eboat or bringing it back. It comes under the merchant shipping act as below.
"pleasure vessel" means—
(i) any vessel which at the time it is being used is:
(a)
(i) in the case of a vessel wholly owned by an individual or individuals is used only for the sport or pleasure of the owner or the immediate family or friends of the owner; or
(ii) in the case of a vessel owned by a body corporate, the persons on the vessel are employees or officers of the body corporate, or their immediate family or friends; and
(b) on a voyage or excursion which is one for which the owner does not receive money for or in connection with operating the vessel or carrying any person, other than as a contribution to the direct expenses of the operation of the vessel incurred during the voyage or excursion; or
TiggerToo
Well-Known Member
sounds like scare mongering mixed with dash of europhobia.
TigaWave, I believe you have hit the nail on the head and got it right there...
TigaWave, I believe you have hit the nail on the head and got it right there...
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Agree to the scaremongering in the original post. I cannot see an authors name on the site, and s/he gives no authority for the definition of an "illegal charter".
Tigawave has it right. I have also checked with my insurance company and they advise that anybody else using the boat has to be in possession of a letter from me authorising them the use. They are then covered fully and the insurance company relies on me to only allow a competent person to use the boat.
There is enough negative legislation either here or on the way (such as Eborders) without inventing fictitious ones!
Tigawave has it right. I have also checked with my insurance company and they advise that anybody else using the boat has to be in possession of a letter from me authorising them the use. They are then covered fully and the insurance company relies on me to only allow a competent person to use the boat.
There is enough negative legislation either here or on the way (such as Eborders) without inventing fictitious ones!
charles_reed
Well-Known Member
Andrew
Many thanks for directing us to Graham's site.
Next time I'm at the daughter's I'll try and make contact.
Many thanks for directing us to Graham's site.
Next time I'm at the daughter's I'll try and make contact.
mikehibb
Well-Known Member
Re: Andrew
Apparently in Turkey they are pretty strict against illegal charters. However when I asked what this means I was informed that they meant blatant chartering ie boat out every other week with other people on board.
Told there should not be any problems if it is a genuine friends/family using the boat as long as there is a skipper/competent person aboard who is ALSO on the transit log.
I had the boat moved from Marmaris to Bodrum for me by a skipper, just had his name put on the log. HM accepted a faxed authorisation.
Checked with my insurance first and they said no probs as long as I have given permission however they did appreciate a call first, just to be safe I emailed them with skippers details and asked for confirmation, just took a couple of minutes and got a reply for my records.
(always find it safer to notify any insurance company and get a reply first, be it boats or cars etc. Insrance companies always like to find a wriggle out clause)
It is all down to if it is for "Hire or Reward" or just some one topping up the diesel tanks and refilling the fridge with beer.
Apparently in Turkey they are pretty strict against illegal charters. However when I asked what this means I was informed that they meant blatant chartering ie boat out every other week with other people on board.
Told there should not be any problems if it is a genuine friends/family using the boat as long as there is a skipper/competent person aboard who is ALSO on the transit log.
I had the boat moved from Marmaris to Bodrum for me by a skipper, just had his name put on the log. HM accepted a faxed authorisation.
Checked with my insurance first and they said no probs as long as I have given permission however they did appreciate a call first, just to be safe I emailed them with skippers details and asked for confirmation, just took a couple of minutes and got a reply for my records.
(always find it safer to notify any insurance company and get a reply first, be it boats or cars etc. Insrance companies always like to find a wriggle out clause)
It is all down to if it is for "Hire or Reward" or just some one topping up the diesel tanks and refilling the fridge with beer.
jfm
Well-Known Member
T Wave you are utterly correct under UK law (and I assume - didn't check - the boat owned by the website guy was UK flagged.) The website info was just plain wrong