ignoring advice - surfers at looe

[snowleopard]

for those who didn't get it on the news last night there was footage of 4 surfers going out at the height of the storm.

they were locals from looe and had chosen to ignore the advice of lifeboatmen. at the time the tidal surge was causing the seas to break into the door of the lifeboat house and would have made launching extremely dangerous.

the surfers were lucky but if one had got into trouble the lifeboat would undoubtedly have launched, putting the crew at unnecessary risk. there would certainly have been an outcry if the lifeboat crew stood on the shore and watched them drown.

while none of us want officialdom saying we can't go round the bay without full safety gear and certificates, isn't there a case for legal action against these people? and where do we draw the line?

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[StephenSails]

They are surfers!

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[jimi]

Disagree.. I've surfed quite a bit myself and you are in areas that would be dangerous to any craft with large breaking waves and with respect I do'nt think the RNLI understand enough about surfing to offer advice to experienced surfers.

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[Twister_Ken]

Disagree

It's all to do with strengthening the gene pool. If duffers will drown, etc.

But given that they were locals, they were probably much more appreicaiative of the conditions and the dangers and their own abilities than a man sitting in a warm MCA office somewhere issuing 'advice'.

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[flaming]

Legal action against surfers for going surfing? It's not unprecidented. Some surfing towns have bylaws that enable prosecutions for surfing on red flagged beaches. In practice though these are very rare and only there to stop less experienced surfers. In reality, if the surfers at Looe where locals then they probably knew what they were letting themselves in for.

As a asside, if a surfer did get into difficulty in the surf a lifeboat would be pretty much powerless to assist in waves like that, there's simply no way they could get in past the break, pick up the surfer and get out to sea again. That would be suicide. The only hope of rescue would come from beach lifegaurds swimming out.

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[AlexL]

completely disagree. Its a free country and while it may be considerd by some to be selfish to potentially put the RNLI at risk, its certainly not illegal yet, and besides what is fun to some, looks dodgy to others. People who don't know what they are talking about (i.e most of the press and most of the government) could equally look at you going sailing in a modest F5 wind over tide and decry your selfishness and dangerousness (?), and suggest it should be outlawed.
Last time I checked it was still legal to have a bit of fun in this country and although most people seem to froun upon others having a bit of fun, I think its good.
Don't give UberFuhrer Blunkett any more reasons to limit personal freedom



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[robind]

Perhaps its time for proper rescue boats like those on Bondai beech with experienced crew that can go out when the surf is up. how do they manage off maui and such places. arent we a bit "nannyfied" in our thinking? how are we ever going to get a world class surfer, if they are not allowed to go out when the surfs up? How would we ever win another battle of britain with this sort of attitude. (esasperated gasp!)
Rob

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[BlueSkyNick]

Having lived in Cornwall when the Mousehole lifeboat was lost just before Christmas 1981, I have some appreciation of the feeling of loss. I would not expect the RNLI to turn out for surfers who have made a conscious decision to go out in very rough water.

But that shouldn't stop the surfers persuing their sport - they just need to accept that nobody is willing or able to rescue them if they get into trouble. A bit like parachuting really, as well as many other dangerous sports.

<hr width=100% size=1>There is no such thing as reality, only different people's perceptions of a situation.

 

[flaming]

In Maui the big wave riders use Jetskis with a sled on the back for exhausted surfers. In most instances, away from the popular "tourist" beaches there is simply no cover at all, same as when I go and surf some of the quieter areas in Cornwall. Ah, the notion of being responsible for your own actions, bliss!

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[snowleopard]

Re: Disagree

<a man sitting in a warm MCA office>

no, a local man, having a great deal of difficulty standing on the quay.

but let's try another tack...

how about telling them that they can risk their own necks but the authorities will prohibit recue attempts. it's not unknown for harbour authorities elsewhere in the world to prohibit would-be rescuers from leaving harbour in bad conditions.

there has to be a way of absolving rescue services from the need to kill themselves helping people who deliberately put themselves at risk.

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[jimi]

Re: Disagree

I would reckon that most surfers would take the view that they would not expect a rescue attempt as it quite frankly would not be feasible. Generally the only means of help is from another surfer .. I had that once when my leash snapped in large waves near Newquay and was picked up by another guy.

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[SlowlyButSurely]

Re: Disagree

Disagree.

If an experienced lifeboatman says it's too rough for the lifeboat to go out who on earth is going to argue with that for goodness sake?

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[dralex]

Re: Disagree

I think it would be ludicrous to stop people going out in conditions like that- it's all free choice and sometimes people indulge in more extreme sports to push themselves beyond the conventional limits of risk taking by involving a more real risk of death- adds a bit more spice to it! Having done a fair amount of extreme rock climbing, my argement would be that most people doing sports like that know their limits and usually push just beyond them but are still well in control. There is always going to be a risk of unpredicted accidents. I am learning to surf and am scared Sh****** by waves over about 4 feet- in contrast, the friend who is trying to teach me is only just getting his wetsuit on for those condtions- it's all relative.

In answer to the point- people should not expect rescue if they make the choice to put themselves in that position. Most people will be rescued ( think of Southern Ocean Rescues), but the rescuers have to have the final decision about putting more lives at risk and having a tragedy rather than just losing the life of the person who has chosen to be out there.

It would be terrible if people were prevented from pushing the limits. This is of course all assuming the people have the experience in the first place.

All IMHO of course.

<hr width=100% size=1>Life's too short- do it now./forums/images/icons/wink.gif

 

[jimi]

Re: Disagree

Analogy I was about to make!

Suppose you'll also say that if for example a highly experienced skilled climber capable of onsighting E5/6 goes to a cliff and the local Mountain Rescue guy (at VS level) says don't climb that cliff its too dangerous then that advice also ought to be taken?

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[dralex]

Re: Disagree

Perceived risk and all that stuff. I would hope the Mountain rescue person would say go for it, especially if the climber was wearing the right coloured lycra and had long hair. /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

<hr width=100% size=1>Life's too short- do it now./forums/images/icons/wink.gif

 

[robp]

Re: Disagree

Sounds like a job for PWC Man..

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[SteveGorst]

Re: Disagree

The lifeboat man will obviously be looking at things from the perspective of a boat and has most likely never been on a surfboard.

The surfers would not expect a lifeboat to pluck them from the surf but they did go out as a group so may have been able to help each other should one have got into difficulty. As others have said we should be left to take responsibility for our own actions whilst taking all possible precautions to make a dangerous situation as safe as it is possible to make it. In this case the surfers where obviously experienced and they went out as a group. As a suggestion I would think it a good idea for an experienced surfer to stay on shore to monitor the situation and be in a position to intervene if anything went wrong.

As a diver I certainly don't expect the lifeboat men to come diving down 50m to rescue me. Should we ban diving because the lifeboat can't reach us?

To quote Jung

"There are some people whose aim is to reach stability, order and safety in their life. The others, on the contrary, have an unconscious drive to a dynamic life, keen excitements, risk-taking"

I think for a stable society we need both types balancing each other out and living in harmony. The risk takers start up small businesses that may or may not succeed and the stability people are their accountants...

My vote, as a risk taking yachtsman, fwiw goes for freedom of choice, accepting responsibility and less interference from the nanny state.

Steve



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[Cornishman]

I just love all these people who have this "if they want to do it they should be allowed to" attitude. That's all very well until there is a death or serious injury. Then we have to have enquiries, inquests and potential rescuers such as the RNLI lifeboat Hon Sec who refused the launch feeling remorse etc.
The conditions at Looe were terrible, and the well meaning CG who offered the advice which was refused could probably see all the repurcussions of a tragedy looming before his very eyes. And don't blame officialdom every time for this, it is usually the relatives of the dead who shout loudest.
I have always, however, followed the principle that you cannot legislate against fools.

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[Twister_Ken]

Garn, you'm pasties is all a bit authoritarian b'int ya?

The only surfer/snow boarder I ever knew well didn't have a real name. He was called Bonkers by one and all. Trying to tell Bonkers where and when he could do his thing would have resulted a mouth full of broken teeth.

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[jimi]

As bad as this

or this

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