If you drive a car read this

Now talking about radar and trackability, apparently our pride HSMS Visby caused some confusing while passing through the channel some time ago. Your surveillance guys picked her up on AIS, buy could not see her on radar, almost caused a terrorist alert maybe? Decent as they were, finally they put up some reflectors to calm your guys down. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Visby_5.jpg
 
This thread performs a service for us all. This government is so threadbare in its thinking, it shows total desperation in dealing with an admitted real problem, that of congestion.

I understand the Government is consulting on the proposal
outlined and plans to go to a trial shortly. If so,
this is to be resisted at all costs. Not only is it likely
to be very expensive, intrusive and grossly unfair, it is
surely the vanguard for other micromanagement techniques -
with all the costs and litigation they entail. Yes, we have
a congestion problem in this Country but there are far
simpler methods available to press down on unwarranted
travel by car.

Here's one proposal: the Government can rescind the Road
Fund Licence and issue a paid for mileage permit for each
vehicle: the basic permit could have a value of, say, 7000
miles per year. Exceeding this will be unlawful without
purchasing a top up permit of, say, a further 3000 miles
priced at the same level as the first permit -ie over twice the
cost per mile. Etc. Permits can be issued as RFL is now,
verified by the MOT agent who takes the mileage reading at
the same time at the MOT, now brought forward to an annual
checkup. Permits must be displayed in the car window, as at
present.

No gantries, no spies in the sky, no equipment for the car
owner to purchase and maintain. Much fairer and a simple
extension of current taxation routes and practices.

I strongly oppose this Government's thinking on this topic and hope that through massive public support for this petition, a better way forward is found. I have also writen to my MP.

PWG
 
The problem is car ownership has become very cheap, too cheap and, like much of our current lifestyle, its wholly unsustainable. There is no fair way of dealing with it it seems to me, you have to price people out, by permits or road pricing or however you choose to do it. Hopefully any additional revenues can be invested in our shamefully poor public transport system that has been systematically starved of funds and good management by a who series of administrations
 
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Hopefully any additional revenues can be invested in our shamefully poor public transport system that has been systematically starved of funds and good management

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With the current track record I just do not see this happening. Motoring is not cheap for a lot of people and as I honestly believe that the transport system will not significantly improve, along with the fact that it is so damned expensive anyway we are stuck with using cars which is what the Government know anyway. They have got us by the scrotum!
 
If yourself and lemain look between 'ironwort' and 'irous' in the OED, you might better understand where I was coming from with the troll reference.

As for the UK-centricity of the thread...'this' government, 'our' problem...come on, what do you think 'www' stands for? /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
When this issue was posted last week somebody quite sensibly pointed out that this petition will, in effect, be used by the government as justification for the introduction of road tolls by either camera or physical collection of dosh at booths, both of which will be cheaper. Road charging is going to come, the means of metering/charging is the issue. Whether GPS, or Galileo will form a sufficiently stable base for road use charging is up for debate, although I have to say that our own fleet monitoring system is amazingly accurate and confirmed a camera detected speeding offence, by one of our drivers, to within 1mph.

Civil liberties and road use charging are two separate issues and it is surely not healthy, or efficient, for those with concerns about either to cloud the issues by co-linking. It is time for a major consultation on public privacy. Pretty much every aspect of our lives can be monitored using current technology, including those things that we consider to the most private, such as interperson communication and health. Ever since "Domesday", and possibly well before, those that govern us have used every available means to check on our lifestyles, wealth, etc and the available means are currently growing exponentially.

Where do we draw the line? I will be quite happy to install an AIS transponder in my boat and will not be too worried about having my vehicle movements tracked, but I detest the thought that I cannot call my wife and tell her that I love her in private.

ps. Keith, if you are monitoring this thread it might well be better re-located in the Lounge.
 
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Where do we draw the line? I will be quite happy to install an AIS transponder in my boat and will not be too worried about having my vehicle movements tracked, but I detest the thought that I cannot call my wife and tell her that I love her in private.



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Interesting. I feel the complete opposite. I do not care too much about the phones as I can tell my wife what I want at home. Also phones have been possible to be eavesdropped on for years already.
BUT I do not wish authorities to know where I am at a particular time, nor my boat nor my car.
 
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Here's one proposal: Sod the less well-off, make driving exclusively for those who have spare cash.....

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That system would also be a goldmine for anyone with the ability to reset car speedometers.....
 
Christophgerc,

I agree - is there a more pressing political problem than getting open admission that an economic model based on constant growth in energy and material consuming activities predicated on unending immigration is unsustainable? It's not just cars - although they are the more visible signs of consumption - easy to flog, but a secondary issue in reality. There is no public transport system yet invented that can carry the current huge volumes of personal and commercial traffic. Even doubling the intercity rail routes (a feat that took France a fortune and 30 years to accomplish) will bearly nibble at the volumes.

And what is life if it is not to visit friends, sail your boat, see other places, and the like. Are we to be bunkered and denied personal freedoms? And have our lives shaped by some state redistributive model? What is all this talk about, if not to this sub text?

We are facing the slow impoverishment of a whole slew of the population who used to earn well enough in manufacturing but now settle for lesser-earning service jobs. Many more non- manufacturing jobs are now in government, replacing those shed during the privatisation of water, telephones etc. We are right back where we started 30 years ago but seem unwilling to face the reality. And this too is equally unsustainable, just about to unravel as budgets are squeezed to fit finite borrowing and taxation resources.

It's not just cars - the whole thing is unsustainable - and I speak as an optimist with a long record in private enterprise!

When you look at the Continent you could feel smugly satisfied that our situation is not as bad as theirs - they are technically bankrupt (Italy is the worst) but we are heading in their direction, just not recognising the facts.

My other fear is that the "inaction is not acceptable" policy now espoused by this governement will be used as a lever to force through micromanagement of the population to the extent that life will become fraught with legal and other challenges. Fines for non compliance will rain down on us - the technology is there already. Look at bio-passports - in the name of security, ok, just acceptable: but identity cards?
But even now the bland assurance is uttered - "no one with a clear conscience need worry" And that in a week when 26000 pensioners "enjoyed" reading the private financial details via the post of their fellow pensioners!!

Let's get real, and not allow ourselves to be bunkered by an Orwellian state, which in the end will not and cannot meet the legitimate needs of the people by imposing oppressive and unfair controls on all our lives though micromanagement. It is a snare and delusion and a rotten subsistute for real leadership.

PWG
 
I've got to agree with every word of that.....

I'm not an economist, but I asked the same question (System based on economic growth being sustainable....) elsewhere without a decent reply!
 
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