idiot requires sailing catamaran advice

[tcm]

i have inadvertently rented a blimmin sailing cat. I partly blame stingo for this, and after several pints he told me how nice they were at anchor, which I admit is mostly where we are on most boating hols. Then he told me exactly how to sail it but he was swaying about and also must have used some gadget to make me forget everything like in the film Men in Black, very strange....

Anyway i have never sailed a cat, ahem. I am fine about the thing under power cos having done stinkipottering the thing at least has the correct number of engines, there being two in number

As far as i can make out, there won't be much indication of "too much sail" like on a monhull where it bang oops leans over a lot just as you come out of cowes with all the sails nicley up to find it a bit windy, so the windex becomes a bit critical if I don't won't to go hobie racing. In other words, lots of reefing?

Is there an aargh ooer rope to let go quickly if it gets a bit too much for the sails? Is that the traveller or the main, or both?

advice please.

 

[srm]

Depends on the rig but let the biggest sail go first.

My slow cruising cat lets me know when to reef, it gets noisy above about 7 knots and wakes me up when surfing at 10 knots so I reef for comfort rather than any risk of capsize (But then my boat is rigged for comfort not performance).

It might be a good idea to buy (and read) a book on handling cruising cats before going off as there are a number of subtle differences between handling proper boats and those funny half boats that need tons of lead to keep them balanced on one hull. There are also a number of useful articles out there on the www.

Have fun

Sean.

 

[snowleopard]

when i did the calculations for my boat, which is a lot lighter than any production cruising cats, the wind speed needed to tip it over with everything pinned in tight and wind from the beam was force 9. allow a bit less for wave action and a bit more for the extra weight of your boat and you come up with a nice easy rule of thumb-

don't carry full sail in a gale.

i have done so but it was downwind and the boat let me know it was unhappy by bringing green water back over the deck and soaking me.

unless you try to be gung ho and see how fast you can go, your normal instincts should serve you well.

a few other tips -

when anchoring, use a bridle, don't just let the chain hang from the bow roller.

even though the stove doesn't need to be gimballed, you still need fiddles and/or pan clamps to keep the kettle on at sea.

when tying alongside, run the breast ropes to the outer hull to avoid snatching

in a rolly anchorage a cat will still move a fair bit but it won't build up a rhythmic roll like a mono

don't offer a tow to mono sailors as you pass, it upsets them.

 

[jamesjermain]

Even experienced cat sailors do it more by numbers than mono sailors. Your charter company should advise you on recommended wind strengths for reefing and these should be obeyed until you have experience to do otherwise.

In theory you should release the larger sail to cope with those OOOeeer! moments, but the powerful, multi-part main sheet does not run out cleanly or quickly so it's better to release the genoa.

In marginal conditions I tend to wrap the genoa sheet round its self-tailing winch in the usual way for hauling in then take a couple of turns off before putting it into the jammer. Then I double the tail back so that a quick tug releases the sheet from the jammer and it runs out quickly and freely

 

[snowleopard]

you learn something every day

i back the turns off the mainsheet winch and put the sheet in a jammer but i'd never thought of taking the fall back round the winch - nice one!

incidentally we don't have a wind instrument because of the rotating mast but standing orders to the crew go along the lines of 'call me if boat speed goes above 9 knots or under 5'

 

[ShipsWoofy]

The difference between my cat and a modern cat that you are due to hire is phenomenal. But one thing I discovered that can get you thumping the coach roof is tacking.

Being a light boat, if you don't have much head on, or if you are not all ready to go about it is very easy to stall when going through the wind. I have more problems as I have a baby stay.

In light airs I have found bearing off and building a bit more speed before going about can help. There have been times in light air that I have found it easier to gibe her, not a great solution, I intend to make my baby stay removable to try to cure this. Though as said before a modern design will prolly just slide through.

As to strong wind, there is a point when things start getting noisy, the wind on the sails begins to sound like you have been dropped into a wind tunnel. The boat suddenly becomes very responsive and feels like a mono (nearest simile I could think of). It is this point where I really don't want to reef, but know I really should be.

I can not really help with dagger boards as I don’t have them, my boat is designed to go sideways rather than fall over. Most capsizes of multihulls have happened seemingly when the windward dagger board digs in and there is no other way for the boat to spill wind. I could be wrong, but I think most cruisers start seriously reducing boards when the wind builds, I know I would be!

Try to remember under rudders she has an enormous turning circle. When bringing her into a marina, if I am turning to stbd by 90° I will stop the port engine, the same applies for coming off a wall, I find this gives you far more steerage. Obviously you can also drive primarily with the engines, but this tends to be for final slow speed manoeuvring.

Edit>> Which boat have you hired and where? I hope we get to see plenty of photo's!

 

[mirabriani]

"In light airs I have found bearing off and building a bit more speed before going about can help."

It did not help me much in my land yacht.
It turned over in a flash, throwing me some feet in the air.
I then landed on a wheel and broke three ribs.

It seems with more speed comes punishment for mistakes!
Hence my great respect for speed machines (like Ellen's)

Regards Briani

 

[Superstrath]

[ QUOTE ]
The difference between my cat and a modern cat that you are due to hire is phenomenal. But one thing I discovered that can get you thumping the coach roof is tacking.


[/ QUOTE ]
Took us a while to figure this one out. Again, ours is old, the newer renter might be different. Our solution is brief the crew NOT to release the genoa until the boat has come well through the wind. Let the sail back for a little while and it will push you through the wind onto the new tack. If you attempt a snappy let-go-when-the weight-comes-off and whip-it through you will almost certainly end up stalled and going backwards, resulting in a gibe.
The old Prouts have such a titchy main that gybing presents no problem at all, but is not a quick way to get where you are going!
I look forward to your reports and experiences.

Alistair

 

[snowleopard]

heavy cats lose way rapidly because of high drag underwater, lighter cats because they have less momentum. in both cases the result is the boat slows down enough for the rudders to lose grip before it has turned enough to fill the sails. i occasionally get the problem when using autotack as the autopilot turns the rudders too slowly.

the technique that works for me is to make sure the boat is sailing fast and not pinched, then put the helm down smartly. as superstrath says, it's fatal to allow the genoa to back and slow you down.

 

[boatmike]

Agree with all this good advice me old leopard but not the bit about normal instincts. Monohull sailors are used to a boat that will weathercock up to windward in a gust. Cats as you know don't.
One radical difference on a fast cat is that if the wind is abeam or forward of the beam and a gust causes a hull to lift you must NOT turn up into wind like you would on a monohull. Turn the other way and scream off downwind until you can reduce sail.
I achieved a full whoopsy on an Iroquois once going the wrong way when first converting to cats. (confession time) Relax though tcm. It's difficult to do on a cruising cat. Although some French designs......... Also don't forget if it is a lightweight, the boat speed will be greater than you are used to so the apparent wind will always seem to be on the nose when going fast and the boat will accelerate faster than a mono so don't sit on the aft rail unless you want a swim....

 

[ShipsWoofy]

IDIOT ADVICE GIVEN

[ QUOTE ]
Try to remember under rudders she has an enormous turning circle. When bringing her into a marina, if I am turning to stbd by 90° I will stop the port engine, the same applies for coming off a wall, I find this gives you far more steerage. Obviously you can also drive primarily with the engines, but this tends to be for final slow speed manoeuvring.

[/ QUOTE ]

erm I meant if I was turning to port I would stop the port prop, that puts all the power on the starboard quarter as such.

Doh!

I think I should get a camper van!

 

[Rowana]

Re: IDIOT ADVICE GIVEN

[ QUOTE ]


I think I should get a camper van!

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought a cat WAS a camper van !

/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

 

[tcm]

Re: IDIOT ADVICE GIVEN

i knew wot you meant!

 

[tcm]

aha turn downwind or stay downwind if it gets all dodgy, noted. I will remeber that. Or try.

I would *hope* i am used to the speed as it isn't Orange2 i am renting and altho raggishly crewed on a boat that thrashed jimi, i also have a powerboat that has 2 x 1200hp diesels, hence "idiot" requesting info...

 

[snowleopard]

only meant 'normal instincts' in terms of reefing but the feel of the wind and appearance of the water. if it's blowing hard, reef, even if you're not heeling over.

i think talk of centrifugal capsizes is a bit alarmist - this is a hefty charter cat we're talking about!

 

[Talbot]

Lots of good advice, but thought I would add my twopennyworth.

If the cat has daggerboards, use the windward one only, cause if she does lift a hull, she will also lift the dagger board, and the boat will slip sideways instead of over.
A cat is in far more danger from rushing down a wave and pitchpoling, than a capsize. so in big seas make sure you are not trying to go faster than Orange 2 /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
When trying to sail to windward, dont forget that boat speed is a vital part of reducing leeway. thus freeing her off will allow higher boat speed and less leeway resulting in a higher VMG. I normally sail at abt 45 to the apparent, but newer boats can do a lot better.
Like some of the others, the only way I can guarantee a tack is to back the genoa slightly, but you can make this a bit easier by slacking the main a tad.
My boat is not going back in until after easter, but if your trip is after that, you are welcome to come try mine!

 

[boatmike]

Some of the charter cats are of an unmentionable French make that have a monstrously wide beam and very little reserve bouyancy at the ends. You know the ones with a 6 ft high flying bridge? (No names of course I don't want to be sued) A friend who has one frightened the bejeezus out of me by lifting a hull in 30 knots of wind just outside Cherbourg at 15 knots until I insisted he reef. I agree with you though he will probably not have to worry if he reefs early as you imply, but with respect, not all cats are as seaworthy as yours and mine and some of the charter boats are a bit iffy. As a Mobo convert (good for him!) he won't have the built in instinct for when to reef and because he is used to speed won't recognise that over 9 or 10 knots is actually quite fast. The other problem monohull sailors complain of is the lack of feel with hydraulic steering on many cats especially if used to a tiller.
But hey you are right. I don't mean to frighten him. just make him aware of what to look for which is what he asked for I think....

 

[snowleopard]

i guess you're right. there could be a temptation to 'see what it'll do' but i imagine most mobo drivers are as sensitive to weather conditions as the rest of us though they could probably be caught out by flat water and strong wind.

 

[boatmike]

I didn't think most Mobo drivers were "sensitive" to anything actually! Lets give poor old TCM the benefit of the doubt though shall we? He might be one we can convert.......

 

[snowleopard]

i think mobo drivers have to be at least as sensitive to sea conditions as raggies, after all a planing hull is pretty uncomfortable in a heavy sea. maybe we could produce a table of equivalents, e.g.

mobo raggie
full throttle full sail
3/4 throttle full sail
1/2 throttle 1st reef
off the plane 2nd reef
head to wind & wave 3rd reef
seek shelter storm canvas

never having been out in a big stinkie, i can only guess but i'm sure there are plenty of folks here who could refine that.