Ideal tender & outboard size for long-term cruising?

[Jock89]

Hi folks, I'm looking for advice from some of you long-distance cruisers. I'm still kitting out my Nic-38' ketch for an eventual circumnavigation & will soon be looking for a new outboard-maybe a Yamaha 9.9? but can't for the life of me decide what would be the ideal Tender.
I'll be doing a lot of spear-fishing once in warmer waters + crayfishing etc, so am a bit concerned about getting an inflatable. My other problem is that my Mizzen-mast gets right in the way of any aft storage & my lazarette isn't really large enough to store a decent sized inflatable. I don't have Davits-they were removed by previous owner years ago & don't really want to install them & be charged extra in a Marina either. Besides that I want to install a Hydrovane which would get right in the way as well.
So, I don't think I have many options do I.?
Regarding outboards...I could probably still lift a 9.9HP at my age, but I don't mind getting a 15HP if I can load/unload it using my Mizzen-mast & a webbing sling.
What do you think fellas'...9' Zodiac & then re-inforce it a bit against spear-points, is this probably the best all-round compromise I can hope for with this boat.? All comments appreciated.!
Thanks-Jeff

 

[KellysEye]

I think there are two requirements for a dignhy/outboard combination based on: you will often anchor some distance from where you want to go in a dinghy and you want to keep dry. This dictates large tubes (e.g. AB dinghies) and a suitable sized outboard (dinghy manufacturer's recommendation) that can plane the dinghy. Don't buy a very small dinghy, you won't believe how much you will end up carrying back to the boat.

 

[freedom44]

Are AB dingies the same as Caribe as I cannot find Caribes on the net?

 

[Pincoya]

We have an Avon Rib Rover lite and a 15hp 2 stroke engine.

The dinghy is an inflatable but with a solid hull and fold down transom. When folded and packed it sits in a bag just like a large surfboard with a height of about 12". This fits nicely on the foredeck and doesn't intefere with the staysail.

The solid hull means we can get up on a plane quite easily and provides a very stable platform for fishing or diving.

Paul

 

[TQA]

I spent 7 years out on a 38 footer mostly in the Caribbean. At first I had a non planing dinghy but eventually settled on a 9 footer with an inflatable centre keel. Plus an 8hp. This will JUST plane 2 people if the bottom is clean. Next time I will buy a Caribe C9 RIB see http://www.caribenautica.com/ and another 8hp. If you want to carry 4 then you need a C12 and a 15hp.

Retiring this August RVing for two years then it's back down Island to Grenada and the Tobego cays.

 

[michael_w]

Don't forget that you will want to carry it up a beach. SWMBO and I survived happily with a 2.6 air deck Zodiac and a Yamaha 4 2 stroke.

Sure at times it would have been nice to go a bit faster.

 

[ChrisE]

Re: Ideal tender & outboard size for long-term cruising?

We did one year's cruising in the Carib/Brazil/Bahamas/etc with a 3hp and 9' dinghy. Never again, too small, underpowered and wet. I now beleive as big as you can store and handle

We now have a 3.4m Zodiac fastroller (effectively a RIB with a pump up floor) with 6hp 4 stroke (used to be a 8 hp 2 stroke until someone nicked it!). Both are easily manageable on our Rival 38.

 

[johnf]

we have a 3.2 metre zodiac and initially had a 4hp yacmaha that was good for pottering around but often it is good to be able to visit the next bay etc and more speed and power really opens opportunities. Weight is a key issue when i looked the 10hp and 15 hp weighed about the same as i think they share many common parts. However tohatsu make a 9.8 kg two stroke that is significantly lighter- ithink it is a bored out 8hp rather than a scaled down 15 hp- if that makes sense. Anyway if you can still find a two stroke one- buy it- i bought one and it is fantastic great power to weight ration and even with 3 adults we plane easily and i am delighted with it.

 

[KellysEye]

No, AB and Caribe are different but both have relatively large tubes. Out here Caribe used to hold the yellow jersey for quality but AB has overtaken them. Both are made in Venezuela. If you type AB + inflatables or Caribe + inflatables into Google there are many listings for both.

 

[demonboy]

We have a rubbish Plastimo with a flat bottom (inherited when we bought the boat). Absolutely crap and a pain to keep in a straight line. The bright red colour just adds to the embarrassment /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

However the outboard is great. Yamaha 4hp. Remember that you will be frequently taking this on and off the boat so the bigger the OB the harder it will be to lift on and off. Our 4hp is just the right size for Liz to lift off the push-pit and pass to me in the dinghy. Anything bigger would be problematic and you'd have to think about hoisting it via halyard/boom.

Don't kid yourself that you won't lift the outboard on and off the boat that often. You will. Dealing with the tender and OB is one of my biggest bug-bears as a live-aboard, which is why most of the time we just row. Don't skimp on the OB either. Stick with reputable makes. The extra expense will pay off through long-term reliability and getting it repaired/serviced will be easier.

Of course if money was no object I'd get a fast-ba$tid 200hp OB and 10m RIB to hack around anchorages in, creating lots of choppy waves to rock all those boats at anchor out of their holding /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[ChrisE]

Re: Ideal tender & outboard size for long-term cruising?

For shifting the o/b about we use a halyard, even for the 3hp, Mrs_E has a bad back and even the lightest of o/bs are too much. With a halyard and winch handle even the 9hp was a doddle.

 

[Jock89]

Re: Ideal tender & outboard size for long-term cruising?

Thanks to everybody who commented on this, & I'll take on board your advice, especially from ChrisE. I also have chronic back problems & although I'm strong enough to pick up, say, a 25 HP (I used to pick these off the ground & put it straight up on my shoulder & start walking-probably why I've got problems now.!) I seem to put something out of whack & it hits me the next day.
I think the answer for general Tender duties & also for spearfishing 'the seaward side of the reef'...through the breakers etc.. is possibly to have 2x 8 HP Yamaha 4 stroke OBs & use 1 or both, depending on the circumstances that day. (many years ago I was given to understand that Yamaha put out more HP as they're rated at the prop, not the cylinder-head, like the rest-?) I could manage the individual weights OK, & if I have people on board I've probably got enough HP to still get up & plane a 3.4m Fastroller. Also they're easier to store/hide etc, so maybe this is the ideal solution for me.! If there are any scuba-divers or spearo's out there I'd like to hear their comments on this as well.
Thanks again to all.

 

[DaveNTL]

Re: Ideal tender & outboard size for long-term cruising?

[ QUOTE ]
We did one year's cruising in the Carib/Brazil/Bahamas/etc with a 3hp and 9' dinghy. Never again, too small, underpowered and wet. I now beleive as big as you can store and handle

We now have a 3.4m Zodiac fastroller (effectively a RIB with a pump up floor) with 6hp 4 stroke (used to be a 8 hp 2 stroke until someone nicked it!). Both are easily manageable on our Rival 38.

[/ QUOTE ]

I second all of this. I also have a Zodiac rollup high pressure floor and had an 8HP 2 stroke Mercury - until someone nicked it! /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

I have replaced (2 weeks ago) the 8HP with a Yamaha 9.9HP 2 stroke and I'm getting an AB 9VS (9'6" long) http://www.abinflatables.com/i_producto.asp The 10VS is simply too big for me - I saw one in the showroom. This model isn't the lightest they do but it has a double floor giving a nice flat surface inside and they claim it as an extra air compartment.

The 9.9 is a bit overpowered for the rollup but it's fine with care.

The 9.9 Yam is the same engine as the 15 with different carb jets - same weight / size. I did consider the 15 but 9.9 is the recommended (not max) size for the new RIB. I'll be keeping the rollup as a spare and to hang on the davits for appearances of someone being 'at home' when we are off in the other.

I have considered getting a small HP outboard as a spare but I'm running out of storage space and excuses for more stuff.

I recommend a sturdy hydrofoil, something like this, on the outboard, it improves stability and popping up onto the plane for me.

As for lifting the engine - I can lift the 9.9 with a bit of puffing and panting, but sometimes I also use a man-over recovery 4 times mechanical advantage pulley system and straps on the motor to lift it - I use it from the mizzen boom but the same can be done from the main of course.

 

[tcm]

Re: Ideal tender & outboard size for long-term cruising?

hi

having a spare "dud" dinghy is good idea - so the boat at anchor can look occupied even when you're ashore.

oldifying an outboard makes it less likely to get nicked - can achieve this just with moderate bodging and paint on cowling.

The big-tube Caribs are the driest. AB not quite as big. Zodiac and Avon considerably smaller.

Check weights. If you can carry two outboards, perhaps consider a bigun and a smallun. 2 x 8 hp outboards does not equal 16hp.

 

[DaveNTL]

Re: Ideal tender & outboard size for long-term cruising?

You're right about oldifying the outboard.... but it looks so good! The Mrs wants to paint pansies on it or summat /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

For the time being I bought one of these Stazo Smartlocks, it's one mean looking bit of heavy kit.

http://www.rowkraft.com/rk_smartlock.html

 

[Jock89]

Re: Ideal tender & outboard size for long-term cruising?

Thanks for the extra comments on this subject & that's an interesting comment from you TCM.
I have no experience of small OBs on dinghies, just 25HP up to 50HP on solid FRP & timber decked-in diving boats of 14-18 ft, but I remember from 30 yrs ago that whereas 1x 25-Hp planed our 'heavy-ish' 14ft timber dive-boat quite well with 2 on board & went well flat out on flat water, when we added another 25-Hp the rev's went considerably higher on both, flat out, which to me showed that each engine "helped" the other reach its full potential. In other words, neither of the engines were working very hard & were able to attain full-rev's.
Based purely on this experience, I reckon that to get the full potential out of a small motor that has to work hard, you need 2 of them. Definitely from the 'safety aspect' anyway.
Personally I think that I would in fact get the full 16 HP from 2x 8s.

 

[ChrisE]

Re: Ideal tender & outboard size for long-term cruising?

Here's couple of cents worth
I think if you are going a pair of 8s then you'll probably need to lookk at bigger inflatables. From memory I recall that the fastroller will take a 15 hp, I' m not sure that it would take the weight of a pair of 8s. The fastroller will plane with 2 up plus gear with an 8.

I'd go along with tcm and have a biggun and a smallun, still best of luck with your plans.

 

[Bajansailor]

Re: Ideal tender & outboard size for long-term cruising?

Regardless of the size of the 'big' outboard, it would be prudent to carry a small auxiliary outboard in case some thing happens to the 'big' one.
Have you ever tried rowing a small rigid bottom inflatable to windward in eg a F 4 using the standard oars provided? Its almost impossible.
'Big' outboards are much more desirable to steal than 'small' O/B's - take note of the number of forumites above who have had O/B's nicked....
If you just have one O/B, and something happens to it, you are stuffed basically, unless you are an Olympic rower.
On your average tender a 2 hp O/B might not have the pose value of an 8 or 10 hp, but it will still allow you to potter about quite happily in those anchorages where you do not have to cover long distances. And even if you do have to travel 1 km or more to the dinghy dock, it is not going to take much longer using a 2 hp instead of a 10 hp (what is 5 or 10 minutes when you are cruising?).
It would also be prudent to carry an auxiliary tender in addition to the main dinghy - as soon as you have guests on board for more than a day or 2 a second tender becomes essential, to allow everybody to be as independent as possible.

We usually carry 3 tenders on our Challenger 35 - they are :
1) A home-made 8' GRP two part nesting dinghy - this rows so well I have never tried to use an outboard on it, and I can (when singlehanded) easily overtake inflatables with 2 hp going to windward. It can take 2 people quite happily.
2) An old Avon Redcrest, which also rows reasonably well (with one or 2 light people) - however we do have one 2 hp O/B which is used when we need to go a fair distance in the Avon with 3 or 4 crew.
3) A tiny 1.8m. Wetline inflatable dinghy - ideal for if someone wants to go off for a singlehanded potter (although it can take 2 at a squeeze) - it has no ability to carry an outboard, and doesnt need it.

 

[Troutbridge]

Re: Ideal tender & outboard size for long-term cruising?

If you're going to spend time in the tropics, get a tender made from hyperlon, they last longer and have a longer warranty (10 years as opposed to 5). Avons are long-lived and strangely enough Plastimo make a range of hyperlon tenders, a couple are double-skinned. If you have back trouble forget heavy outboards. You may or may not have the budget for two tenders (it's a good idea). Talking of budgets, a larger outboard will need constant 'feeding' don't forget.