ICOM M506 - Warning: No GPS over NMEA 2000

[MountainGoat]

A few weeks ago I posted this thread, in which I was looking at replacing my Raymarine C90W MFD with a new Lighthouse II powered one, and replacing most of my Seatalk1 network with SeatalkNG. I mentioned I have an ICOM M506 radio with AIS receiver but that it wasn't taking GPS data over NMEA 2000/SeatalkNG from the C90W. At the time I thought the C90W was probably at fault.

Since then I've replaced the C90W with a new A97, which is NMEA 2000 certified, and the ICOM still won't receive GPS data over NMEA 2000. The menu option is there, it can see the chart plotter, it sends the plotter AIS data, but it won't take GPS.

The problem was fixed by connecting the NMEA 0183 output of the plotter to the radio, but that seems less than satisfactory, especially since the plotter only has one NMEA 0183 output.

So my partner contacted ICOM UK, who said that despite what is printed in the manual, the M506 does not support obtaining a GPS position over NMEA 2000. The menu option to select an NMEA 2000 GPS source does nothing.

Apparently they had compatibility issues with different manufacturers' MFDs when designing the radio, so at the last minute they pulled support for obtaining position information via NMEA 2000. They have asked ICOM Japan for a firmware update to fix this, but none has been forthcoming.

So caveat emptor. I would still recommend this radio, on the proviso that you are able to provide position info via NMEA 0183. Without it you will still get AIS on your plotter (but not the radio), but the radio will not be able to make GPS tagged DSC calls, which is obviously concerning.

It's advertised as a fully native NMEA 2000 device, but at this time it is not.

 

[nigelmercier]

You single NMEA0183 output is OK to feed several other devices. Mine all feed 3, and 5 should be OK.

 

[adwuk]

That's really odd because my 506 will happily take GPS data from any one of:
1) Zeus2 chart plotter over N2K
2) Garmin GPSMap 520 connected to N2K by Actisense 0183 to N2K gateway
3) Homebuilt gadget with GPS connected to N2K
I know this because sometimes I only switch one of the above 3 on and the VHF still gets a fix.

 

[pvb]

It's advertised as a fully native NMEA 2000 device, but at this time it is not.

In fairness, Icom's website says "A typical installation will connect to your chart plotter using the NMEA2000™ protocol for AIS data transfer. This allows you to overlay received AIS data onto your chart plotter from your radio. NMEA 0183 is used to interface GPS position data and received DSC information with your chart plotter."

 

[MountainGoat]

That's really odd because my 506 will happily take GPS data from any one of:
1) Zeus2 chart plotter over N2K
2) Garmin GPSMap 520 connected to N2K by Actisense 0183 to N2K gateway
3) Homebuilt gadget with GPS connected to N2K
I know this because sometimes I only switch one of the above 3 on and the VHF still gets a fix.

Can I ask which firmware version you have? We are on 1.002. Here's what ICOM UK said:

Yes, it was our (Icom UK's) understanding that NMEA2000 on the M506 would be for all relevant nav data as well as AIS data, as per manual.

However, we found that across a variety of manufacturers - Raymarine, Garmin, Simrad, Furuno etc - we were getting mixed and varied results. These ranged from not working, intermittent to working.
We have been requesting a firmware update for a cross system solution from Icom Japan for some time now.

As we know that NMEA0183 works well on nav data; we are advising that customers proceed with this method.

Again, I am sorry for any inconvenience.

 

[Spi D]

Hmm.

One M506 is on it's way to me.
The NMEA 2000 compaitbility is one of my requirements so will be interesting to see if it is or not.

BTW the manual states that NMEA 0183 must be var. 2.0 and that some versinos of the device has no NMEA 2000 connector. Would presume that is the connector is there it is working.

 

[adwuk]

Can I ask which firmware version you have? We are on 1.002. Here's what ICOM UK said:

v1.002 rings a bell, but can't be sure until next weekend. I bought it this year (pretty sure Jan or Feb).

 

[MountainGoat]

v1.002 rings a bell, but can't be sure until next weekend. I bought it this year (pretty sure Jan or Feb).

We got ours in April.

 

[MountainGoat]

Hmm.

One M506 is on it's way to me.
The NMEA 2000 compaitbility is one of my requirements so will be interesting to see if it is or not.

BTW the manual states that NMEA 0183 must be var. 2.0 and that some versinos of the device has no NMEA 2000 connector. Would presume that is the connector is there it is working.

The connector is definitely working because I get AIS on my chart plotter.

Also the radio can see the plotter via NMEA 2000 when looking for GPS. It just won't take a position.

 

[adwuk]

The gadget that I built transmits PGNs 129026 (COG & SOG) and 129029 (Position) directly to the N2K network. This is sufficient to give the VHF a fix.
I wonder if your chart plotter isn't sending the correct PGNs or perhaps with some incomplete data - obviously the N2K interface is working as you can see other devices on the network.

 

[MountainGoat]

The gadget that I built transmits PGNs 129026 (COG & SOG) and 129029 (Position) directly to the N2K network. This is sufficient to give the VHF a fix.
I wonder if your chart plotter isn't sending the correct PGNs or perhaps with some incomplete data - obviously the N2K interface is working as you can see other devices on the network.

The Lighthouse II manual claims it sends both. Given the plotter is also providing the NMEA 1083 data, and that seems to be perfectly acceptable to the radio, something odd is going on here.

 

[adwuk]

The Lighthouse II manual claims it sends both. Given the plotter is also providing the NMEA 1083 data, and that seems to be perfectly acceptable to the radio, something odd is going on here.

Remember that 0183 and 2000 have completely different data formats, and so the VHF will have different parts of its firmware code interpreting the received data. Its entirely possible for the same device to produce valid RMC and GGA 0183 sentences, but a somehow invalid (at least as far as the ICOM-506 is concerned) 129026 N2K PGN.

My suggestion is to see if you can borrow another N2K GPS and connect it to your network. I wonder if you have simply been unlucky with your combination of "NMEA certified" devices.

 

[MountainGoat]

My suggestion is to see if you can borrow another N2K GPS and connect it to your network. I wonder if you have simply been unlucky with your combination of "NMEA certified" devices.

It would be an interesting experiment to try at some point.

 

[Spi D]

My plotter is a Lowrance HDS 10 Gen1.

Once connected and tested I'll report back.

 

[Spi D]

My new radio arrived

Ordered from Force4 with a cable and tee-piece. Force4 by courtesy did an update to the channel table (to add 2 leisure channels in use here). Flawless service (special thanks to Niall) and Fedex delivery, spot on :encouragement:

Unpacked the thing, plugged in antenna, NMEA2000 cable and connected 12v. Everything worked perfect - true plug 'n play with plotter and autopilot. Didn't do anything to settings on either device.

Plotter displays AIS info, both symbol and details and the radio picks up time and position from the plotter.

 

[MountainGoat]

Perhaps it's just Raymarine plotters it doesn't play nice with then?