I need some legal advice - this could be messy

Genie

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Hi Folks
I could really do with some good advice (any legally qualified forumites out there?) as I am very unhappy with my boat.
I live in Guernsey and late last year went over to the south of england to look at and sea trial a boat.
All went well and we duly proceeded with the purchase, electing to buy the demonstrator at a discount from new as it was the exact spec we were looking for.
The boat arrived in Guernsey in March and the first time we took her out, the engine failed, and we were towed in and the boat left with a local marine engineers to sort out under warranty as agreed by the dealer we bought off.
The boat was delivered back about a week later with an apparent clean bill of health.
We took her out and again, the engine failed.
The boat was taken back to the engineers yard (local volvo specialists) for more warranty work.
On inspecting the engine, there was sea water present in two of the cylinders. After about a month of discussion, Volvo agreed to send a brand new engine out from Sweden.
That was fitted earlier this week and she was delivered back to her mooring yesterday after a sea-trial and a clean bill of health.
I went down to her today and rather than take her out, I ran the engine for about 40 mins at the mooring, switched off for about 5 mins and then re-started which went fine. I then ran her for another 5 mins and then switched her off for about 20 mins. Went to re-start her and she would not start, exhibiting exactly the same symptoms as before (turns over and over, but no ignition).
I'm deeply unhappy about this - We paid a lot of cash for her and so far since March I have only used her out on the sea twice both with a tow in, so probably about 3 hrs use all in.
Now she's back and I can't use her again becuase of a fault.
I have left a message for the boatyard to collect her on Monday and to sort it out (under warranty), but I'm wondering exactly what is going on, and I am losing faith in the vessel.
The yard said they sea trialled her and are very sympathetic, as is the dealer I bought her off, but if they can't fix it this time, am I entitled to reject the boat and demand my money back?
Any advice or suggestions appreciated - I've been very patient and have not been cross or stroppy with anyone yet, but I really feel that I may have to 'get legal' to sort this out.
I've owned her for nigh on 3 months and have only been out for 3 hrs!
Help! /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
 

Whitelighter

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I am no legal expert, so please do not take this as advise, it is simply what I understand:

It seems to me you have given the dealer and or Volvo plenty of time to rectify the problem. If this is a reoccurance of the same fault, it points to something other than the engine - and may therefor be more integral with the boat.

I think you could be in a position to reject the boat BUT- it could be the fault is an installation issue or something unrelated. At least the delaer and VP are doing something about the boat. It might be worth waiting to see the diagnosis on Monday as it might be something installed incorrectly. It shouldn't happen, but can when a new engine is installed.

I really feel for you, boating is a hobby most of us choose to relax, and I can image the last year has been anything but relaxing.
 

Genie

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Thanks Jez
It's just so frustrating,e specially as we can look out of our window and see all the other boats zipping out for some fun.
I will wait until monday to see what they propose to do now, but I have a horrible feeling that when they installed the new engine they perhaps may have used the old ancilliaries (manifold/exhaust etc) which may be the root of the problem, rather than replacing the lot.
If there is sea water in this engine then I really won't be pleased (and I dare say, neither will Volvo).
I can't fault them on their sympathetic approach and I will give them every opportunity to remedy, but this really is turning into a saga.
As you say, boating should be all about getting away from stress and strife, not creating it!
Thanks for the moral support though - it is appreciated!
A nice big beer in front of the TV tonight might help!!
Cheers
Rob
 

Channel Ribs

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Hi Rob,

My sympathies, a duff boat is worse than no boat at all. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

There are some legal smeguls in here, so I wont risk my amateur opinions other than to say that you might want to start gathering documentation. Dates and times and who and where, I am sure you know the kind of thing. Even if you don't go for a full refund you are more likely to get a result if you show them that you are serious and organised.

Have you tried to get a third prefessional opinion, perhaps another yard or a surveyor?

Best of luck, keep us posted.
 

Gludy

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My advice is to take proper legal advice from a layer such as Chris Fairfax who specilaies in this sort of stuff.

IMHo you have a clear right to reject and should do so providing that the dealer is worth more than the boat! .... chack on that first.
 

PeterGibbs

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You are entitled to goods fit for purpose, and this you have not had. Whilst the supplier, who has the legal duty to deliver same, is trying (apparently so) you are advised to work with him. I take it you have paid 100% and withheld nothing pending satisfactory delivery?

Clearly the boat is suffering a series of installation problems and a court would take the view that you are, in your own interests, required to be reasonable and let the supplier try to fix them. Your entitlements under your warranty and law and apparently not in question.

One issue and a courtesy arise:

If after a further reasonable period the boat is still unserviceable/unreliable you are entitled to call the sale void. But the agent will not readily take the boat back, I suspect. A threat of court action may be required. In this event a meticulous record of what's happened, and correspondence / telephone messages etc is a must. Prepare for this. Your stance must be objective ie. you want to get to sea, loss of facilities, whilst this problem remains unsolved etc. A feeling of lack of confidence etc is a much less strong basis for rejection of the contract.

The courtesy is that at the end of this, assuming the boat remains with you, the supplier could make a nice gesture for disappointment - you might think what size and form this should take! Consider that most suppliers get 15-20% from the manufacturer to cover such commissioning problems (plus profit margin) and you can work out the sums yourself.

Good luck.

PWG
 

Whitelighter

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[ QUOTE ]
Consider that most suppliers get 15-20% from the manufacturer to cover such commissioning problems (plus profit margin) and you can work out the sums yourself.


[/ QUOTE ]

I am not sure where you get this information, and it may well be true for SOME companies, but certainly not the norm. No where close for those dealers I know about.
 

jimg

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I am not asking you to reveal the dealer, but what make of boat are we talking about?
Some-one here might have experience of the model and could possibly help?
 

Genie

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Hi folks
Thanks for all the kind words and encouragement - it certainly makes me feel better!
I'm hoping that on monday the engineers will take her back and sort this out once and for all, but I suspect that this may take further weeks to resolve.
The boat is a 22ft Lema Clon with a Volvo 4.3l GXI engine with EVC.
The dealer and engineers are being sympathetic and I'm grateful that (and Volvo) agreed to replace the engine.
I have heard that this has happened to other Lema Clon's but that is hearsay (unless anyone else out there knows different).
I paid in full, so no percentage held in abeyance, but to be honest, the boat is perfect for us, so i don't want to reject it - I just want the engine to work!
The boat/engine warranties were commenced from when I took delivery and I am the first registered owner of her.
I'll keep you posted on what develops, but in the meantime,
many thanks for the kind sentiments and advice.
Have a great weekend everyone!
Rob
 

tyce

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sounds to me like the dealers are keeping there end of the bargain as it looks like they have spent a lot of time arranging and paying for a mechanic to sort it.
i think i would question the competence of the mechanic and get some one who has half an idea to fix it.
lets face it it cant be the most complicated of things to suss out
 

Genie

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Thanks Simon
The yard have been great - in fact their boss saw my thread and and asked their chaps to look at it pronto (which on a saturday was pretty admirable!).
I hope that as competent engineers they would have of course looked at this aspect.
I have great faith in the local engineers - I just hope it gets fixed!
 

Genie

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Thanks Pete
Your advice is appreciated - I'm hoping that a 'reject' will be the last option as we like the boat very much - here's hoping our local chaps sort the problem out soon!
Cheers
Rob
 

oldgit

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Just another day or two..................

I would wait until the guys at the yard have had a chance to have quick look at the problem.
It could be something very simple,easily solved in two secs and nothing whatever to do with your previous grief.
Something like a loose connection,diesel filter leaking air or even (heaven forbid)the throttle was not in neutral or something when you tried to start for that one last time.
Give them one last chance and if required a second /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif,a search of this forum will indicate that to replace your boat will take forever with no end of irritation as the season disappears while you stand on the shore waiting for the next legal letter/refund cheque to hit your doormat.
You will have to start all over again the find another boat...............
One poster here had to wait nearly 9 months for his brand new (petrol)boat to be replaced from the US.
Ps.I would also get them to pop an engineer on board during your first good long flat out test run somewhere offshore and exposed .Suspect that my/your main worry would be that the blimming thing conks out miles from anywhere and having someone on board who can fix it would help lots in the confidence dept.
 

marine

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Re: Just another day or two..................

Sorry to hear you're having problems, but it seems the Dealer is acknowledge his responsibility and at this stage it is best to work with him.
However if the contamination to the cylinders is from a failed riser then I would be amazed if they hadn't cheked this out let alone used it again.
Are the dealers Volvo Penta approved dealers? as I am sure Volvo should have any engineer to hand to ensure the next engine (if needed) isn't trashed as well.

Good luck with the Boat, I hope you get to use it for the purpose intended very soon.
 
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