I know you lot won't be behind the door with your opinions so....

TheArchers

TheArchers

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I know you lot won\'t be behind the door with your opinions so....

Any general thoughts on a Freedom 35? Long keel, cat ketch rig???

Informed opinions would be great but all comments welcome (if only for entertainment value:-))

Going to look at one on Friday hopefully and since we've been looking at Sloops exclusively so far, we wouldn't mind a little more info on this 'bizzare' (to us) rig.

Thanks in advance /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Re: I know you lot won\'t be behind the door with your opinions so....

There was a Freedom 35 in one of the early (about '87 or '88) ARC Rallies - I think she was called Castaway but I'm not sure - and she won her Class quite convincingly, so it goes to show that they can shift.

Re the bizarre rig, I think that one of the designer Garry Hoyt's favourite analogies is 'How many biplane passenger airlines do you see these days with stays supporting the wings', or words to that effect.
He has a point........ OK, freedom rigs do lose their masts occasionally, but there again, so do rigs with stays.
 
Re: I know you lot won\'t be behind the door with your opinions so....

No specific knowledge but there is a ketch gaff freedom rig boat on Windermere which seems very tender. Is that a product of it's American popularity as the Great Lakes seems to have more gentle winds (vis: McGreggor26) than we get here?
Or is it just the tub-like hull form?
(this wasn't especially windy, maybe F3)

freedom.jpg
 
Re: I know you lot won\'t be behind the door with your opinions so....

Go frit.

John Oakley used to sail them with a lots of success in odd races. Mind you, he could have sailed an ironing board with success too.

Good to live aboard I'd think. Once got gloriously drunk in one anyway, and very comfortable it was. Bit of a Tardis.

If you're interested, and if you can find one, look out for the Canadian take on the rig, the Nonsuch.
 
Re: I know you lot won\'t be behind the door with your opinions so....

Think of the great lakes more as oceans than inland water bodies. They are so big that they have fetch that is more than similar to English Channel, and the waves can be huge.
The wind as well.
 
Re: I know you lot won\'t be behind the door with your opinions so....

owned a freedom 35 cat ketch centreboard version for several years and have also sailed on long keel version (co incidentally was on one last weekend) happy to chat about them - in summary - rig is superb but I would reccomend only buying one with carbon fibre masts as the later and cheaper aluminium masts have been known to fail (especially main mast), I personally preferred the versatility of the lift keel- interior space excellent fore and aft cabin , heads and galley and cockpit - saloon bit cosy - downsides we found were that effort to raise sails could be sweat inducing !! - some lucky b's fitted electric primary winch which solved that with a button push - biggest down for us was that load on helm in breeze heavy - aching shoulders when it blew, if you are a marina visitor manouvering in a breeze needs thinking about as boat weathercocks - a lot! - we thoroughly enjoyed our ownership and found performance very acceptable - offwind great - on wind adequate for cruiser but not a hard on wind racer - if we had planned on sailing further more often rather than mainly solent and surroundings with (then ) 3 youngish children would still have ours now, good luck

ps we always thought they looked good too !!
 
Re: I know you lot won\'t be behind the door with your opinions so....

Only draw back is their construction - Foam sandwich even below the waterline. Whilst this construction is comon now on expensive boats, I am not sur that it was fool proof then. However a good surveyor should pick up any problems on this.
 
Re: I know you lot won\'t be behind the door with your opinions so....

That's not a Freedom rig in your photo, that's a lugsail, on a Nigel Irens designed Romilly class. Freedom cat ketches are very different, heavier hulls tyan the Romilly, but still surprisingly fast on a reach (and lets face it, who wants to go to windward much). They do sail to windward too, but not quite as well.
 
Re: I know you lot won\'t be behind the door with your opinions so....

Sailed and raced on a long keeled version. Doesn't like being pinched but a bit off the wind and she went. Lots of space and so easy to sail - 1 winch and a row of clutches within easy reach of the wheel.
Borrowed Portuguese charts from the owner when I was sailing north and it pi**ed me off something rotten that his track (still on the charts) was 6-8kts going south while I was making about 4.

Question for the panel - on the Freedom 35 both masts and sails are the same size so when sailing goosewinged - forward boom to starboard, aft boom to port, say - what tack is she on?
 
Re: I know you lot won\'t be behind the door with your opinions so....

A friend in Turkey has a long keeled Freedom 35 with the rig that has two free standing carbon masts (therefore no wire rigging at all) and sails on wishbone booms like a windsurfer.
It is a super boat, which she sails single handed, and lives on board. She has kept up with other bigger boats on rallies.
 
Re: I know you lot won\'t be behind the door with your opinions so....

I second the point about only buying the carbon mast version. Someone I knew had an aluminium mast fold, probably a result of an earlier dent.
 
Re: I know you lot won\'t be behind the door with your opinions so....

I've never sailed them but have looked at a couple. The mast at the sharp end seemed to me to get in the way from the point of view of easy anchor handling. I may be mistaken.
 
Re: I know you lot won\'t be behind the door with your opinions so....

Funnily enough I was walking round Brighton Marina on Monday and there was one for sale. It was moored stern-to and I could see into the cockpit and what I could see didn't appeal to me. It's got a very unusual cockpit layout and with a sprayhood up looks very difficult to get down below. There was more than one competed in the YM triangle in the 80's and from what I remember of the one I did, it did really well but only because there was a lot of reaching involved and it's got a fairly decent waterline length for its size. Its owner wasn't impressed with its windward abilities.
 
Re: I know you lot won\'t be behind the door with your opinions so....

A chap I know had one for a few years ,he liked the build quality the accomodation and its turn of speed but sold it because it was such hard work raising the sails .I dont know if this could be solved with an electric halyard winch,or even an extra purchase on the halyard?
 
Re: The Great Lakes.

Thanks for all your replies.

One thing which we have recieved conflicting opinions on are the aluminium/carbon fibre masts. A couple of people we have spoken to have mentioned that the carbon fibre masts are suceptable to UV degradation and they thought the aluminium masts were a better option, however that is the opposite to what a couple of you on here have said?

Aside from that, one of our concerns is the difficulty in re-selling it, due to it's 'strange' rig. Although I would think we would hold on to a Freedom 35 longer than if we bought a Moody 34/346, because it would be more suitable for longer distance cruising. But everyone tells us theres no way we will keep our first boat forever, so we have to take re-selling into consideration.

And also, pvb - are you sure you are looking at the right boat? I think they look lovely! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Re: The Great Lakes.

never heard of the carbon rigs degrading due to uv - my friends boat is from 86 and has original black carbons still going strong-mine had new tillotson pearson w hite carbons (following failure of the aluminium masts ) - as far as resale is concerned sold mine relatively easily and she has since been sold again- brian butler at ancasta plymouth specialises in them and might be worth chatting to - re companionway - yes it is offset and not as easy to go up /down as conventional but benefits below - cockpit superb size and great areas under sprayhood to doze/chill etc - used to be very popular on ours when children were younger
 
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