I can't believe . . .

Searush

Searush

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the mis-informed twaddle & predjudice being posted about the RNLI on these fora.

I would have thought that boat owners & those interested in boating would have at least some idea about what the RNLI does & how it is funded etc. But it seems not. I am amazed!

If you are unsure about their "worth" or management capabilities, then next time you pass your local RNLI station, pop in & pick up a copy of their latest magazine. Just have a read of it (including the round-up of local fund-raising events) and learn a little about the organisation that may just, one day be needed to save your life.

While you are there, you could arrange for a FREE safety check of your boat, that could save your life too. There is no consequence of "failure" of the check, except that you will be more aware of the risks you take sailing if you choose to ignore the free advice.
 
if there is "mis-informed twaddle & predjudice" then it is the LI's fault for not managing its public relations properly. They should have greater transparency and a less 'points winning' approach (by which I mean less shouting about how many lives they have saved, and a less hectoring approach at Boat Show). I now have a distasteful feeling when I pass their stand that I am going to be aggressively squeezed for money by trained chuggers. A groundswell of resentment against their policy of positive spin for every time they go out - even on training runs.

FWIW I still contribute :)
 
But everyone chooses to ignore posts from some one who worked (not volunteered) for the RNLI... channelyacht makes some valid points albeit from a coastie point of view ;)

I did work for the RNLI and have seen the wastage, internal bullying, the PR lies, the cover ups, etc.

However I do support them by being a Shoreline member - even though I am not in the UK again for the foreseeable future.


PW
 
Searush said:
the mis-informed twaddle & predjudice being posted about the RNLI on these fora.

I would have thought that boat owners & those interested in boating would have at least some idea about what the RNLI does & how it is funded etc. But it seems not. I am amazed!

If you are unsure about their "worth" or management capabilities, then next time you pass your local RNLI station, pop in & pick up a copy of their latest magazine. Just have a read of it (including the round-up of local fund-raising events) and learn a little about the organisation that may just, one day be needed to save your life.

While you are there, you could arrange for a FREE safety check of your boat, that could save your life too. There is no consequence of "failure" of the check, except that you will be more aware of the risks you take sailing if you choose to ignore the free advice.
Click to expand...

As an average bloke who happens to own a boat, I find the whole situation a bit dichotomous to be honest..... on the one hand I have vague concerns at the sheer size/cost of the administration (and my missus works for the NHS in an A&E so I know all about "management consultants"), and on the other hand I have nothing but admiration & amazement for the bravery of the guys who man the boats....

On balance the latter carries more weight with me so I give monthly by Direct Debit and chuck my loose change in the box when I see one...
 
Searush said:
the mis-informed twaddle & predjudice being posted about the RNLI on these fora.
Click to expand...

Having sort of followed the other threads, I am not sure which is "worse". The provocative attempts at comparison with how France organizes its rescue services, or the blind faith that many seem to have in the RNLI in the belief that it must be right.

On balance I am inclined to see that the latter is worse. The problem with the RNLI is that there has never been any attempt to determine whether it is the most efficient and effective way of providing rescue services. Suspect that if you started from nothing (zero basing in the jargon) you would not end up with the RNLI as it currently stands. More likely you would end up with a much more basic and cheaper service.

However, the RNLI filled a vacuum 170 years ago and has captured a place in our society that reflects the importance of maritime activities to the nation in both economic and social senses. In doing so it has gained a level of untouchability that is almost unique. Government, which in most other parts of the world takes responsibility for rescue services has been quite happy here to accept that state of affairs. You can be sure that if government did take it over, it would allocate far less money than the RNLI currently spends because more would be politically unacceptable.

So, we are left with an organisation that has managed to secure a long term supply of funds which it has to spend on specific activities. It cannot "unspend" it - if it does not need the money it cannot send it back or allocate it to other activities - it just spends. Prudently, of course, in the sense that it always ensures it has enough to meet its own SELF DETERMINED needs.

So, if I were in charge, like any other motivated manager I would ensure that I spent every penny and then told everybody how good I was at my job, how much activity there was for the money and ensure I always had sufficient income to do what I considered worth doing. After all, as we have seen on these threads, there is nobody INDEPENDENT keeping any check on whether what I am doing is the right thing - only that I am doing what I said I was going to do.

What makes it even easier for such a wasteful situation to exist is that it is a free good. As a number of people have pointed out, there is no resistance to using all these resources, even when they are not necessary - call them up and they will respond, because they are there. There is little direct connection between the people who benefit and the people who finance the service. The level of service is primarily determined by the amount of money available.

So we end up with arguably the most expensive service, with the best equipment, the best people directly doing the job, but potential as suggested by many, for huge waste. The more effective the money raising activity, the higher the cost of providing the service as all the money raised must be spent.

The alternative of a government funded service would inevitably mean a substantial reduction in funding and a decline in the level of service. As the government is unlikely to take this on there is no incentive or desire to change the status quo. Very few organisations are in this enviable untouchable position, so it will work hard at maintaining it. Hence the need for a "good" publicity machine to keep folks onside.
 
I wonder just how this 'more basic and cheaper' service would look. Would it restrict it's services to some code of conduct, would the volunteers be less well equipped, would we have fewer stations and thus potentially longer waits for rescue.

Yes if we started now we would have a different service because we would not have a vast reserve of experience and we would make many many mistakes as we struggled to find our feet.

No organisation is perfect, no organisation is waste free, there is always room for improvement, the real question is much more how do we achieve that improvement.
 
maxi77 said:
I wonder just how this 'more basic and cheaper' service would look. Would it restrict it's services to some code of conduct, would the volunteers be less well equipped, would we have fewer stations and thus potentially longer waits for rescue.

Yes if we started now we would have a different service because we would not have a vast reserve of experience and we would make many many mistakes as we struggled to find our feet.

No organisation is perfect, no organisation is waste free, there is always room for improvement, the real question is much more how do we achieve that improvement.
Click to expand...

Is that the royal "we"?:)


As I see it, it's really very simple. If you like what the RNLI is doing, and support their aims, and think the services they provide are important and worthwhile, then either join and give as your means permit, or just chuck the odd bit of change in the box now and then.

If you don't then don't give to the RNLI, do summat else with your money. Why waste you time and efforts in bad mouthing something, just because you don't like the way it does things? None of you who are doing that are winning any hearts and minds as far as I can see.

So many seem intent on undermining and slagging off the RNLI, this I don't understand at all. (not directed at you Peter, just an observation of the posts about the RNLI bouncing around scuttlebutt).....

I have said it before on these threads, if you want to change how the RNLI is run, then perishing well join, and say your piece at the AGMs, there is one thing that's as sure as sunrise, the RNLI are not going to be paying any attention to the blatherings on here.
 
Chrusty 1 said:
Is that the royal "we"?:)


As I see it, it's really very simple. If you like what the RNLI is doing, and support their aims, and think the services they provide are important and worthwhile, then either join and give as your means permit, or just chuck the odd bit of change in the box now and then.

If you don't then don't give to the RNLI, do summat else with your money. Why waste you time and efforts in bad mouthing something, just because you don't like the way it does things? None of you who are doing that are winning any hearts and minds as far as I can see.

So many seem intent on undermining and slagging off the RNLI, this I don't understand at all. (not directed at you Peter, just an observation of the posts about the RNLI bouncing around scuttlebutt).....

I have said it before on these threads, if you want to change how the RNLI is run, then perishing well join, and say your piece at the AGMs, there is one thing that's as sure as sunrise, the RNLI are not going to be paying any attention to the blatherings on here.
Click to expand...

It was more a comment on the post by Tranona than a deep hearted cry for change. I do not see an overriding need for change but do see that there can always be room for improvements, though I suspect even that would do little for the doomsayers here some of whom seem almost to suggest the RNLI is some vile behemoth smothering our freedom of the seas and charging us for the priviledge
 
maxi77 said:
I wonder just how this 'more basic and cheaper' service would look. Would it restrict it's services to some code of conduct, would the volunteers be less well equipped, would we have fewer stations and thus potentially longer waits for rescue.

Yes if we started now we would have a different service because we would not have a vast reserve of experience and we would make many many mistakes as we struggled to find our feet.

No organisation is perfect, no organisation is waste free, there is always room for improvement, the real question is much more how do we achieve that improvement.
Click to expand...

Then, in very simple terms, where are the complaints about inadequate rescue services in other countries which have such a differently funded service?

My argument is that the current arrangements are systemically wasteful as the objectives of the organisation are to spend all the money that it has with no check on whether what it is doing is effective. It is self perpetuating. As we can see here, anybody who questions it is derided - for daring to question it.

It is hardly surprising, given there is no constraint on how the money is spent that it will get the best of what the organisation thinks it needs the best of.

That does not however mean that there are not alternative ways of doing the job, as is shown in other countries.
 
Tranona said:
So, we are left with an organisation that has managed to secure a long term supply of funds which it has to spend on specific activities. It cannot "unspend" it - if it does not need the money it cannot send it back or allocate it to other activities - it just spends. Prudently, of course, in the sense that it always ensures it has enough to meet its own SELF DETERMINED needs.
Click to expand...

They have too much money and they do not spend it wisely.

It is shocking that a charity like the RNLI pays executive salaries up to half a million pounds a year!

To me it sounds like someone there is making a lot of money out of this "business".

With this I do not want at all detract from those genuine volunteers who actually crew the rescue boats. As always the rot is deep inside.
 
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haydude said:
It is shocking that a charity like the RNLI pays executive salaries up to half a million pounds a year! .
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The top salary last year was around £135k which isn't excessive for an organisation of that size.

Total salaries of all the top 5 executives amount to around half a million but so what? A GP can earn £100k for doing a job within a much smaller organisation.
If we want a charity the size of RNLI to be properly run then we need to pay at least a reasonable amount to its managers.

Out of curiosity I've just had a quick look at the accounts of the National Trust (the first that came to mind). Last year the top three executives were each paid over £200k. Look also at their reserves....the RNLI is not alone!
 
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