I call water.

[Jamesuk]

6:20 start tacking up towards the Curnard Ledge.

The situation - a likely 3metre keel boat inside of you calls water, OK i call water on a smaller boat he then shouts back NO YOU HAVE NOT. What do you do?

Discuss:

(I could have carried on sailing until i had gotten to 0.5 and tacked so could have total tosser coming up on my starboard quarter? But small balls in the bigger boat could not / did not want to either way we would all have had to tack at some stage.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Tack, and tell him he is protested.

PS - always better to smack into a smaller boat, not a bigger one!

 

[AIDY]

Not the answer you want to hear.

But especially with the RTIR I keep clear of everyone even though i may be in the right. I assume a good 70% have no idea of the rules of the road and who has water at a mark.

most are out for a jolly on someone elses boat or a charter boat, or just race once a year, so are either not bothered about the boat getting damaged or don't understand.

Maybe that's why i would never race my own boat round the island, but it's okay to get an invite from someone else /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[awol]

"When approaching an obstruction, a boat sailing close-hauled or above may hail for room to tack and avoid another boat on the same tack. However, she shall not hail unless safety requires her to make a substantial course change to avoid the obstruction. Before tacking she shall give the hailed boat time to respond. The hailed boat shall respond by either
(a) tacking as soon as possible, in which case the hailing boat shall also tack as soon as possible, or
(b) immediately replying ‘You tack’, in which case the hailing boat shall tack as soon as possible and the hailed boat shall give room,
and rules 10 and 13 do not apply."

So if you were close hauled "No" was not a valid response.

 

[jb2006]

Here's my take - wrong or right /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

The deep keel boat should have called for room to tack - not for water, you should then have called and been given room to tack immediately. I think the inner boats right to room to tack makes her an obstruction under RRS 19.1 which you have the right to tack to avoid. See UK Halsey rules quizzes 5 and 9. Interested to see if anyone disagrees

I managed to stay out of trouble but it wasnt always easy esp. the finish /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Agree that that charter boats are a special hazard in the RTI and a lot of people in the ISC class don't study the RRS. We will be getting our IRC rating for Cowes week so will probably sail in IRC for next years RTI

 

[alldownwind]

[quote....................So if you were close hauled "No" was not a valid response.

[/ QUOTE ]
Absolutely right. Only valid responses are either for him to tack, or for him to call 'you tack' and then avoid you.
If you've called water he must give you water. If he doesn't like it (and if you're both racing) then he can protest afterwards.

 

[Jamesuk]

Indeed 3**7T was in the wrong GOOD /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[benjenbav]

Out of interest, and to distinguish theory from practice, what did you do?

 

[pheonix]

thats a coincidence i just passed water. better still sail along side the offending pratt and pass water over him to prove that you had water with which to pass in the first instance


/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[Jamesuk]

[ QUOTE ]
Out of interest, and to distinguish theory from practice, what did you do?

[/ QUOTE ]

Tacked let out the Main and Headsail turned heavily to avoid TT and then when clear re-established good course. All fun tho had it been cowes week then i would have protested.

also just out of interest what does the average YM reader call water on? 1 metre 2 3 4 5? 10?

 

[Twister_Ken]

Racing, less than 1 metre, unless I know there are bricks ahead. If you want to be out of the tide, you want to be shallow.

Out of interest, why were you trying to go shallow at Gurnard - there'll have been more helpful tide out in deeper water.

 

[jamesjermain]

Depth isn't the only, or even prime consideration. On the Hill Head shore you can sail for half a mile with 0.3 of a metre below the keel. On the Gurnard Ledge rocks leap up at you in seconds. I would call for water with time for the other boat to react, decide on appropriate action, communicate with you and act - so probably a minute before I knew I had to tack. In a fleet of experienced racers, perhaps less.

 

[dom]

I agree with other posters. First of all try and keep out trouble. Then if forced to - make the safer collision. I called for room to tack approaching Ryde sands. The windward vessel told me to get lost in no uncertain terms.. We depowered and tacked under him. He joined the considerable number of vessels stuck on the sand!

Usually best couse of action is to talk to other boats rather getting to technical. Eg. It is best to:

1.Ask. Are you going to give me water at the mark? rather than waiting and then shouting Water! Water! Water you*#!.

2. Tell a vessel I think I am going to have to tack soon i.e. well in advance rather than waiting until the last second.

3. Have port starboard issues resolved by your respective bowmen well in time.

4. Look around and try to anticipate possible problems.

 

[flaming]

[ QUOTE ]
The deep keel boat should have called for room to tack - not for water,

[/ QUOTE ]

This is correct, so being totally exact the hail from the smaller boat is technically correct.

You'd have to be some sort of outrageous idiot with a possible personality disorder to use that technicality, when it's blatantly obvious what is actually meant, in an event like the RTI.

With a more serious race I would probably do exactly what the smaller boat did though. Wrong call = no rights.

 

[DJE]

[ QUOTE ]
On the Hill Head shore you can sail for half a mile with 0.3 of a metre below the keel.

[/ QUOTE ] You can but there are a few 1.2m high banks to catch out the unlucky ones! (I did a survey of the area in front of the sailing club over Christmas and since then we've moved about 2000 tonnes of gravel out of the harbour entrance so it could be anywhere by now.)

 

[dom]

Even in a more serious race as you put it, I really cannot imagine it would help the boat that did not give way - and probably got smacked in the process - to claim that the wrong language had been used!

I think that jb2006 was simply and correctly pointing out the letter of the law for the sake of interest. That is why he in his own wise words "kept out of the way".

 

[flaming]

It probably wouldn't play out like that.
If you get the wrong call you ignore it but watch them. If they then tack, obviously tack to avoid them and then protest.
Be very careful not to actually impeed them though, that protest isn't a given - very much a he said she said type.

Not knowing the rules is a very dumb way to get yourself protested out of a race. Sounds anal, but the rules are there so everyone follows the same procedure which makes crashes much less likely.

 

[dom]

"If you get the wrong call you ignore it but watch them." Are you serious?! You could say Do you mean ..........? The boat approaching Gunard ledge will have to tack before he believes an impact will occur. If he collides with the boat sandwiched in the middle the outer boat could easily be held responsible for the whole thing.

To be honest I have never seen this kind of nonsense on the racecourse at any level. Boat owners and crews alike would never want to see their vessel or indeed anybody elses vessel seriously damaged or more importantly a crew member hurt as a result of two crews trying to play legal eagle on the water.

 

[jamesjermain]

[ QUOTE ]


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On the Hill Head shore you can sail for half a mile with 0.3 of a metre below the keel.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You can but there are a few 1.2m high banks to catch out the unlucky ones!

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't I know it. Some years ago we walked ashore the pub/hotel on the cliff somewhere along the foreshore there, I can't remember its name, and enjoyed a pint or two while waiting for the water to return

 

[graham]

I remember being asked to stop luffing the boat I was overtaking as the water was getting too shallow on an ebb tide. I bore off a bit the other boat stood on and beat us over the line laughing/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif