Hypothetical re-engine question

[harvey38]

I currently have a pair of 250HP 6L turbo charged ford Sabres with sub 1000 hours coupled to PRM gearboxes, both fully serviced with no issue apart from a few oil drips that I haven't located the source of and of course, a bit smokey.

I've only put on around 100 hours on them in three years and still gaining confidence in the engines and not let me down but.........I still have a dream of a new pair of shiny new engines. Smaller, quieter, more fuel efficient and good for confidence.

The boat, a 1987 Aquastar Ocean 38 aft cabin will probably be our forth and last boat we own so re-sale is not an issue.

Although quite technical and mechanically quite savvy, I have drawn a blank when trying to find a suitable replacement set of engines, let alone costs.

Any ideas of something suitable and possible costs of engines?

Thanks in advance
Rob

 

[Praxinoscope]

You may find you will get some replies on this forum, but will potentially get a lot more useful replies if you post this in the ‘Motor Boat Forum’

 

[harvey38]

You may find you will get some replies on this forum, but will potentially get a lot more useful replies if you post this in the ‘Motor Boat Forum’

I was going to but this forum has a greater audience and a lot of yachties have re-engining (sp) experience

 

[Boater Sam]

I was going to but this forum has a greater audience and a lot of yachties have re-engining (sp) experience
You may find you will get some replies on this forum, but will potentially get a lot more useful replies if you post this in the ‘Motor Boat Forum’

I was going to but this forum has a greater audience and a lot of yachties have re-engining (sp) experience

me replies on this forum, but will potentially get a lot more useful replies if you post this in the ‘Motor Boat Forum’
[/QUOTE]

[/QUOTE]



I thought that but there seems to be very few engine posts on the Motor Boat Forum.

You may be better reconditioning what you have, good solid old engines, rather than spend loads on modern eastern buzz boxes with horrendous spares prices.
If they run well, a set of piston rings in honed bores with a top end overhaul, may work wonders. Is the hot oil pressure still good and the same on both? How much oil do they burn?

 

[harvey38]

me replies on this forum, but will potentially get a lot more useful replies if you post this in the ‘Motor Boat Forum’

[/QUOTE]



I thought that but there seems to be very few engine posts on the Motor Boat Forum.

You may be better reconditioning what you have, good solid old engines, rather than spend loads on modern eastern buzz boxes with horrendous spares prices.
If they run well, a set of piston rings in honed bores with a top end overhaul, may work wonders. Is the hot oil pressure still good and the same on both? How much oil do they burn?
[/QUOTE]
Hot engine (70C) @ 500 RPM tick over gives about 35 PSI, cold is 40 PSI as indicated by the old, analogue gauges and senders. As each one holds around six gallons of oil, I've not noticed much oil burn, the smoke is on start up from unburnt diesel when they are cold.

 

[Iliade]

I currently have a pair of 250HP 6L turbo charged ford Sabres with sub 1000 hours coupled to PRM gearboxes, both fully serviced with no issue apart from a few oil drips that I haven't located the source of and of course, a bit smokey.

Why replace them? They are barely run in... Think of a car engine: Driven at an average of 50mph it takes 50000 miles to clock up those thousand hours.

 

[dunedin]

Difficult to make any case for replacement on 30 hours per annum !

Where do you use the boat, and what distances do you travel?

If you really want new, smaller and quieter, then perhaps think about a serial or parallel electric hybrid options if you want that experience, and prepared to invest a bit of time and money.
Already a proven (albeit not low cost) option for inland waterways craft, and a hybrid allows for things like crossing the Channel to go into continental waterways. Some great examples of people done this, particularly if on shaft drives.

BUT if your usage is punching an apartment block along at 30 knots it ain’t the answer.

 

[harvey38]

Difficult to make any case for replacement on 30 hours per annum !

Where do you use the boat, and what distances do you travel?

If you really want new, smaller and quieter, then perhaps think about a serial or parallel electric hybrid options if you want that experience, and prepared to invest a bit of time and money.
Already a proven (albeit not low cost) option for inland waterways craft, and a hybrid allows for things like crossing the Channel to go into continental waterways. Some great examples of people done this, particularly if on shaft drives.

BUT if your usage is punching an apartment block along at 30 knots it ain’t the answer.

Definitely plan on much cruising abroad as France is only 25 miles away and certainly want diesel, not electric. Cummins, M.A.N. Caterpillar?

 

[PCUK]

I reckon you'll spend £50,000 once you've finished but if that's not relevant then I'd go for Cummins.

 

[dunedin]

Definitely plan on much cruising abroad as France is only 25 miles away and certainly want diesel, not electric. Cummins, M.A.N. Caterpillar?

Worth a read about the Hardy 42 diesel + electric hybrid to get a sense of what is possible these days - albeit the brand new Hardy is not the cheapest way to do these things. Hardy 42 Hybrid yacht tour: This sturdy liveaboard cruiser has a diesel-electric heart
But of course the sensible thing is not to re-engineering at all - just pointing out the alternative if going to all that expense and effort

 

[Tranona]

The last estimate is about right. A basic bob tail 250hp engine is in the region of £18-20k. Gearbox, props, installation would add well over £10k so a £50k budget is the minimum.

As already suggested in terms of the basic Ford engine there is probably plenty of life left in it, although not the sort of hours you would get from a regularly used road engine partly because of the high output - nearly double the basic road engine and partly because your type of use - short bursts at close to maximum followed by long periods of inaction is not good. The problems with older engines is the power boosting and cooling bits, that is turbos, heat exchangers, oil coolers and associated pumps and pipework which need to be kept in good condition.

£50k buys a lot of expert attention to keep your current engines running. while new engines are quieter, smaller, don't smoke as much and arguably more efficient they wont push the boat along any better nor make your time on board (most of which is stationary!) any better.

 

[Birdseye]

I was going to but this forum has a greater audience and a lot of yachties have re-engining (sp) experience

not with the sort ans size of engine you are asking about.

 

[Sandy]

I currently have a pair of 250HP 6L turbo charged ford Sabres with sub 1000 hours coupled to PRM gearboxes, both fully serviced with no issue apart from a few oil drips that I haven't located the source of and of course, a bit smokey.

I've only put on around 100 hours on them in three years and still gaining confidence in the engines and not let me down but.........I still have a dream of a new pair of shiny new engines. Smaller, quieter, more fuel efficient and good for confidence.

The boat, a 1987 Aquastar Ocean 38 aft cabin will probably be our forth and last boat we own so re-sale is not an issue.

Although quite technical and mechanically quite savvy, I have drawn a blank when trying to find a suitable replacement set of engines, let alone costs.

Any ideas of something suitable and possible costs of engines?

Thanks in advance
Rob

Your engines are suffering from under use. You need to put some hours on them.

If you are desperate to spend money I am happy to give you my Swiss Bank Account number.

 

[Boater Sam]

You may find you will get some replies on this forum, but will potentially get a lot more useful replies if you post this in the ‘Motor Boat Forum’
[/QUOTE]

I was going to but this forum has a greater audience and a lot of yachties have re-engining (sp) experience

me replies on this forum, but will potentially get a lot more useful replies if you post this in the ‘Motor Boat Forum’
[/QUOTE]



I thought that but there seems to be very few engine posts on the Motor Boat Forum.

You may be better reconditioning what you have, good solid old engines, rather than spend loads on modern eastern buzz boxes with horrendous spares prices.
If they run well, a set of piston rings in honed bores with a top end overhaul, may work wonders. Is the hot oil pressure still good and the same on both? How much oil do they burn?
[/QUOTE]
Hot engine (70C) @ 500 RPM tick over gives about 35 PSI, cold is 40 PSI as indicated by the old, analogue gauges and senders. As each one holds around six gallons of oil, I've not noticed much oil burn, the smoke is on start up from unburnt diesel when they are cold.
[/QUOTE]
Not a lot wrong with those motors. Smoke from cold is nothing to worry about, A simple cheap clean and reset of the injectors will likely improve that. Save the cash, they are good engines.

 

[superheat6k]

When I nearly bought a Chung Hwa last year the survey process revealed serious concerns with its elderly and neglected engines. When I looked into the likely cost of replacing them, naturally aspirated 80 HP Fords, with perhaps 100HP the estimate was over £40k, indeed above the agreed price for the boat itself.

I bottled out and bought instead my Grand Banks, indeed with similar engines to yours and similar hours. I have no thoughts let alone plans to out these.

I would suggest the maths for 2 x 250 HP would likely require a budget closer to £80k, and be very wary of new engines having to comply with current emissions regs.

 

[Flynnbarr]

If you‘re lacking confidence in the engines OP then you could do compression and cylinder head leakage test…..
Does the boat have a saloon roof engine hatch to remove old/install new ?…..

As others have said you’ll probably not wear those engines out if used and when I looked into similar just before covid…..so price increases will have happened….it was between the two figures mentioned so far…..50k+ and I was looking at trying to re use existing gearboxes.
Was looking at John Deere and you can get the spares/consumables at a tractor dealership.

 

[ChromeDome]

Huh. If it ain't broken don't fix it.
If you want something different, trade.

New engines most likely will be computerized, common-rail, NMAE200 and what not style, so you need to do a stop/go decision on these aspects before anything.

Yanmar still offers both on their site.

Seasall (Hyundai Marine) commonly have special offers

 

[fisherman]

These are probably Ford Dovers, if before about 1992, after which they would be the Otosan. They are bombproof. Sub 1000 hours is your only problem, you don't use them enough. My Dovers went over 14000 hours. Anything you get to replace them will have lots of lovely electronic control systems. The Dover, if you could supply fuel and make it rotate, would start. At your level of use economy isn't really an issue, but the ecology is between you and your conscience.
At 12000 hours I asked an engineer should I have the pump or injectors serviced. He said does it start, does it smoke, if not don't bother.
Also, only worry about oil consumption if it is 2% of fuel consumption.