Hydrochloric acid, muriatic acid, spirits of salts

[VicS]

Hydrochloric acid is often suggested for descaling jobs including engines and toilet installations
It is available as brick, masonry or patio cleaner but not all brands of these products are based on HCl. Reference to the label and possibly the MSDS is therefore necessary.

However browsing through the recently arrived catalogue from ToolStation I notice that " spirits of salts " is available from them in 500ml and 1 litre bottles.
Might be convenient for smaller quantities.

FWIW

 

[Little Five]

Excuse my stupidity but what would you use spirits of salts for? Same as the other two?

 

[Tradewinds]

Excuse my stupidity but what would you use spirits of salts for? Same as the other two?

Google & Wikipedia are your friends

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrochloric_acid

 

[VicS]

Excuse my stupidity but what would you use spirits of salts for? Same as the other two?

Muriatic acid and spirits of salts are both common names for hydrochloric acid

 

[Little Five]

Ok, thanks guys.

 

[Shearwater]

I have a snapshot memory of many years ago my dad made a concotion of 'flowers of sulphur' with ' spirits of salts'. I think it might have been for a solder flux. What was going on (chemicaly) and why?

 

[VicS]

What was going on (chemicaly)

Nothing that I can think of

A soldering flux, killed spirit, is made by adding zinc to HCl until no more dissolves.

 

[VicMallows]

Muriatic acid and spirits of salts are both common names for hydrochloric acid

Common? Odd that I have NEVER heard of 'spirits of salts', and would have had to look up 'muriatic'. Sounds a potentially dangerous description to use for a consumer product (you said from Toolstation). Can only guess that simple 'hydrochloric acid' is perceived by the ad people as too scary for the general public.

Vic

 

[Bosun Higgs]

Something like that Vic. The names quoted date from Victorian times, possibly even earlier. Just like they might call sulphuric acid "oil of vitriol".

 

[fishermantwo]

Hydrochloric acid is often suggested for descaling jobs including engines and toilet installations
It is available as brick, masonry or patio cleaner but not all brands of these products are based on HCl. Reference to the label and possibly the MSDS is therefore necessary.

However browsing through the recently arrived catalogue from ToolStation I notice that " spirits of salts " is available from them in 500ml and 1 litre bottles.
Might be convenient for smaller quantities.

FWIW

Locally we have a product called Metal Gleam. Its main ingredient is hydrochloric acid. I used to buy it in 20 litre containers. Mixed with water at about 20:1, I and other fishermen used it to clean out bait tanks and fish rooms etc. The white flowcoat finish would be restored to pristine white. Also used on the hull prior to repainting, cleaned off any rust stains.

Excellent on Stainless steel as well, probably why its called Metal Gleam.

 

[electrosys]

I have a snapshot memory of many years ago my dad made a concotion of 'flowers of sulphur' with ' spirits of salts'. I think it might have been for a solder flux. What was going on (chemicaly) and why?

I think there's something wrong with just those two 'ingredients', as sulphur will not normally react with hydrochloric acid.
Hydrochloric acid is a reactive compound which is strongly ionic and separates during a chemical reaction into H+ and Cl- ions.
On the other hand, elemental sulphur is more stable with it's bonds being non-ionic - thus the two substances will not normally react with one another.

However, if you were to add some iron filings and some heat, then you'd be on the way to making the HCl and sulphur react - to form hydrogen sulphide - by the sulphur reacting with the iron to form iron sulphide, and the iron sulphide reacting with the acid to give off hydrogen sulphide gas (H2S) - the key ingredient of stink bombs. It's a classic school chemmy lab experiment. But there ain't no flux.

The ol' memory plays tricks - at least mine does.

 

[robertj]

Your turn vic!!

 

[VicS]

Your turn vic!!

I must have been away they day they did that.

 

[VicMallows]

However, if you were to add some iron filings and some heat,...... to give off hydrogen sulphide gas (H2S) - the key ingredient of stink bombs.

Thanks! H2S was my instant reaction ( from nearly 50 yrs ago.) when I heard the ingredients. Obviously VicS would not be wrong, so was puzzled ...... had forgotten the Iron Filings!

Vic

 

[VicMallows]

'Chemistry Sets'

To continue the theme (!)..... does anyone know when 'Chemistry Sets' disappeared? (these were boxes containing 20+ glass testtubes of various chemicals, a few other bits and pieces, and usually a small spirit burner. (Upmarket sets might contain a gas bunsen burner - which you connected to an available gas spigot in your home!). They were essentially sold as 'toys' in toyshops. They were certainly commonplace late 1950s/early 1960s.

Did they die a natural death due to changing interests? (electronic were on the up) or were they killed off by H&S?

Vic

 

[aquaplane]

Yer but, H2S is more toxic than Hydrogen Cyanide gas, but you can smell it at very much lower concentrations. But you get used to it and can't smell it very quickly so it creaps up on you and makes you deaded.

I used to use oil of vitriol, well 3 of them, BOV= brown oil of vitriol I think was 98%, ROV=97.5% Red oil of vitriol and the other was DOV, dark oil of vitriol but it's all a bit hazy. I know that they were all too strong to dessociate so they were OK in mild steel drums without rotting them.

HCl on stainless is OK if you keep it reasonably cool and don't have a long contact time, but the Cl- in HCl goes for stainless so care is neeed, or don't do it if you don't know what you are doing.

Archaic names for chemicals is all part of the fun of working out what's going on, but it can be a pain for the uninitiated.

 

[VicS]

To continue the theme (!)..... does anyone know when 'Chemistry Sets' disappeared? ..........
Did they die a natural death due to changing interests? (electronic were on the up) or were they killed off by H&S?

Vic

You can still buy them!

 

[VicMallows]

You can still buy them!

Obviously I don't frequent TOYS-WERE-US enough .... I'll be intrigued to see just what chemicals they manage to include these days.

Vic

 

[capetown]

I use spirits of salts/hydrohloric acid to clean bronze fittings, then neutralize in a solution of bi carb, saves all that polishing.
We are lucky that our iron monger is an open all hours type, a treasure trove.

 

[prv]

To continue the theme (!)..... does anyone know when 'Chemistry Sets' disappeared? (these were boxes containing 20+ glass testtubes of various chemicals, a few other bits and pieces, and usually a small spirit burner.

Still around in the 90s, when my parents got me one for Christmas, complete with meths burner. None of the chemicals were all that interesting though. I made a few batches of whatever I thought would fizz nicely, some other concoction that stained stuff, and then experimented with melting and bending the test tubes over a charcoal flame with an electric blower to make it hotter.

Pete