Hydranet sails vs Dacron

[SolentSnowgoose]

I am looking to replace the Genoa on my Prout Snowgoose Cat... its a largeish sail and quite a low aspect ratio with the mast set well back.

From everything I had read I was pretty keen on a Radial Hydranet ( Dynema reinforced ) sail on the basis that it would hold its shape better under load ( Cat's don't heel so gust loads are high )

I discussed this with a well respected sail-maker and he pretty much talked me out of it and recommended a good quality Dacron Cross cut on the basis that we often beat to windward with the sail well furled ( our best set-up for beating in strong wind is well furled genoa and staysail) and that the Hydranet cloth would permanently distort if the sail was used hard when furled

I respect his knowledge but was a bit surprised given that the whole idea of the Dynema reinforcing is to reduce stretch

Would appreciate comments from others particularly those who beat with 2/3 - 3/4 Genoa rolled away or have experience with Hydranet Radial Genoas.

We were also considering "roller batten cars" on the end of the fully battened main to enable the sail to come down easier ..but again we were talked out of this in favor of either a tideway track or else basic slugs .

Again input appreciated.


Thanks

 

[Slowtack]

Have my hydranet radial roller genoa two seasons now and very happy with it. Monohull boat. Sails was a bit stiff to start with and hard to get rolled tight, all ok after a few uses. Foam luff. Sets well even with a good few rolls.

 

[sailorman]

Give it 4 years & it will be mildewed between the scrim layers :disgust: How do i know :disgust:

 

[Chanquete]

Hy Snowgoose.
I also heard these ideas about reefing a genoa by furling increases the distortion of the sailcloth.
I dont think so.
As long as you furl your genoa and keep the sheeting ange constant by moving the car the load pattern remains similar.
If you dont move the car and reef your sail the load pattern will become more biradial.
And a radial sail with Hydranet will perform better.
I suport your choice of a radial cut genoa with Hydranet, I think its an excellent sailcloth.
I recently bought a radial cut furling genoa in radian sailcloth at North.

All the best!

Chanquete

 

[SolentSnowgoose]

Thanks for the feedback Slowtack

The suggestion from the sail-maker was that if the sail were subjected to high loads when furled then it would stretch because in a part furled sail the loads would no longer be aligned with the Dynema.

Have you subjected the sail to a 30+ kt good blow when furled ?

Can I ask who made your sail ??

 

[SolentSnowgoose]

Give it 4 years & it will be mildewed between the scrim layers :disgust: How do i know :disgust:

Sailorman.... Hydranet is NOT a laminate sail ..its fully woven but with Dynema thread woven in to strengthen the cloth ( looks a bit like rip-stop nylon on steroids)

 

[sailorman]

Sailorman.... Hydranet is NOT a laminate sail ..its fully woven but with Dynema thread woven in to strengthen the cloth ( looks a bit like rip-stop nylon on steroids)

Time will tell

 

[Twister_Ken]

Hy Snowgoose.
I also heard these ideas about reefing a genoa by furling increases the distortion of the sailcloth.
I dont think so.
As long as you furl your genoa and keep the sheeting ange constant by moving the car the load pattern remains similar.
If you dont move the car and reef your sail the load pattern will become more biradial.
And a radial sail with Hydranet will perform better.
I suport your choice of a radial cut genoa with Hydranet, I think its an excellent sailcloth.
I recently bought a radial cut furling genoa in radian sailcloth at North.

All the best!

Chanquete

Just to clarify for those wondering, North Radian is not the same as Hydranet, nor even based on the same principle.

 

[Chanquete]

Hy Ken

Radian is a interesting premiun dacron warp oriented sailcloth without any reinforcing Dyneema fibers.
I have not tryed my sail yet.
As far as I know dimension polyant manufacters two types of Hydranet which is a tightly woven polyester sailcloth reinforced with woven Dyneema and HydraNet® radial which includes warp oriented Dyneema fibers

 

[Daydream believer]

With the sail set properly unfurled the stresses are carried by most of the sail
The lowest stresses are 20% back from the luff & these tend to run parallel with the forestay with some load going out to the clew taking some of the leech & foot loads
When one furls part of the sail that 20% area becomes fuller & less stressed as can be seen on some badly furled sails
This effect is slightly offset by a foam luff
What now happens is that the stresses run up the leech & along the foot with less going out to the centre of the sail because that area has gone baggy
Hence the leech & foot get stretched more
Especially so as the wind is normally higher

 

[Bob_Ranft]

Asked Crusader Sails who have been using Hydranet Radial for a good few years about distortion problems when beating to windward with a partly furled sail, when I asked for a quote for my Snowgoose. Obviously they were looking for business, but they sounded very confident that the Hydranet Radial would be up to the job, even for a large genoa on a Prout cat.

One question I put to them was that would I not be better off with an additional smaller jib (say working jib size) that I could change down to and use unfurled rather than straining a partly furled genoa. Not worth the effort was their basic reply.

Just ordered a full set of sails in Hydranet Radial from a local sail maker, fingers crossed time.

Bob

 

[Twister_Ken]

Hy Ken

Radian is a interesting premiun dacron warp oriented sailcloth without any reinforcing Dyneema fibers.
I have not tryed my sail yet.
As far as I know dimension polyant manufacters two types of Hydranet which is a tightly woven polyester sailcloth reinforced with woven Dyneema and HydraNet® radial which includes warp oriented Dyneema fibers

My jib is North Radian, and a damn fine sail too!

 

[Monique]

An identical thread is ongoing at the Yahoo Amel forum.

The bottom line as far as Amels are concerned (cruising yachts with reasonable speed but no speed demons) is that you can get 2 sets of Dacrons for the price of one set (fancy) sails.

Adding vertical battens helps retain the shape for furling sails but ensure the size of your mast is sufficient to contain the larger volumes.

GL

 

[Slowtack]

Solent Snowgoose - Yes Ive raced with it last season, few windy nights, sail reefed, set well, no adverse effects.
No obvious distortion subsequently but I would not expect there to be any given the materials reputation base on proven performance on long distances.
Made by Incidences sails, France.
http://www.incidences-sails.com/accueil/index.html
Correct, whoever said its not laminated.

 

[rudolph_hart]

Solent Snowgoose - Yes Ive raced with it last season, few windy nights, sail reefed, set well, no adverse effects.
No obvious distortion subsequently but I would not expect there to be any given the materials reputation base on proven performance on long distances.
Made by Incidences sails, France.
http://www.incidences-sails.com/accueil/index.html
Correct, whoever said its not laminated.

Another endorsement for Hydranet.

I don't race (anymore), but the sails made by Crusader to replace the original Dacron ones for my Dehler 35 have, after 3 seasons, met all the objectives.

1. The Dyneema in the weave allowed a significant reduction in cloth (= sail) weight.
2. The radial cut jib sets better, particularly when reefed (foam luff).
3. The radial main sets better, holds its shape as wind increases, and allows reefing later.
4. Sails easier to handle. Less cloth weight, no longer use Cunningham or leech flattener.
5. No laminate/sandwich = no mould (old jib had Mylar/Pentex reinforcement sandwiched in the leech which went 'spotty')

 

[snooks]

Another endorsement for Hydranet.

I don't race (anymore), but the sails made by Crusader to replace the original Dacron ones for my Dehler 35 have, after 3 seasons, met all the objectives.

1. The Dyneema in the weave allowed a significant reduction in cloth (= sail) weight.
2. The radial cut jib sets better, particularly when reefed (foam luff).
3. The radial main sets better, holds its shape as wind increases, and allows reefing later.
4. Sails easier to handle. Less cloth weight, no longer use Cunningham or leech flattener.
5. No laminate/sandwich = no mould (old jib had Mylar/Pentex reinforcement sandwiched in the leech which went 'spotty')

Same here - except we have a Sadler 32, not a Dehler