Hunter Liberty/Minstrel - any feedback for me

[dylanwinter]

In my ongoing ruminations for a replacement for the slug and spurred on by my diesel engine repair bill trauma fear thingy I keep on coming back to the Hunter minstrel/liberty

Not least because the next time I run out of money I can put it on a trailer, rent a van and tow it home until I have earned enough money for the next bit

so....

how do they sail?

are they stiff?

how reliable is the centre plate mechanism?

what size engine works with them?

How do they sail with the plate and rudder slightly raised?

How to they handle under power? I ionce helmed a hurley 22 bilge keel - it sailed like a dream but motored like a pig

any known faults?

Dylan

this is the website

http://www.hlmoa.flyer.co.uk/ and I prefer the idea of the gunter rig given my desire to explore inland under bridges

 

[sailorman]

In my ongoing ruminations for a replacement for the slug and spurred on by my diesel engine repair bill trauma fear thingy I keep on coming back to the Hunter minstrel/liberty

Not least because the next time I run out of money I can put it on a trailer, rent a van and tow it home until I have earned enough money for the next bit

so....

how do they sail?

are they stiff?

how reliable is the centre plate mechanism?

what size engine works with them?

How do they sail with the plate and rudder slightly raised?

How to they handle under power? I ionce helmed a hurley 22 bilge keel - it sailed like a dream but motored like a pig

any known faults?

Dylan

this is the website

http://www.hlmoa.flyer.co.uk/ and I prefer the idea of the gunter rig given my desire to explore inland under bridges

there was one on the Deben she looked a fine little ship under sail

 

[Seajet]

Dylan,

while I've always had doubts about them as an offshore cruiser, for your purposes I'd think you may have hit on a great idea; think they have several mini keels to hopefully keep the bottom away from pointy seabed nasties ?

I think they have an outboard well too, which is the only civilised way to motor this size boat !

Have only seen them sail a few times years ago, seemed to go well enough; I stumbled across one or two for sale when looking up lift keelers for someone a while ago, snag is I can't remember the prices / value, will try to find them again.

Always had the impression they're short on ballast, but don't remember the figures.

You may have noticed what I always say about lift keelers, 'has the plate been maintained ?' - too easy to plonk a boat on shore or trailer and ignore the keel...I have plans for simple but strong DIY trestles you could adapt if you get to that stage.

 

[Seajet]

Dylan,

just had a look at the site and am surprised they're talking about 2 wheel trailers; as Sergeant Wilson would say, "is that wise ?" ! Or legal ?

I know these Hunters are lighter, but having been involved with towing Anderson 22's, they certainly require a 4 wheel job at a quoted ( dry, no equipment ) 2,500lbs, though if it works out OK I suppose a 2 wheel with a good jockey would be a lot easier handled on shore.

As you probably know, one of the latest soft targets the police have decided to go for is trailed boats...

 

[VicS]

This one in the yard is on a 2 wheel trailer.



I asked about it when Dylan expressed an interest before but the yard traced the owner. She said she had forgotten about it, said she wanted to keep it and paid several years worth of outstanding debts!

Displacement is only a little more than 1 tonne so a two wheel trailer is feasible but the limit for two wheeled trailers is probably around 1800kg gross weight. It 'll not be towable by a small hatchback though.

I know someone who had one, but don't remember if it was a Liberty or a Minstrel.
He bought it replace his Cygnet ( Signet??), Mini Swan, but after doing a lot of work on it found he did not like it and sold it again.

He found the outboard well unsatisfactory for some reason. He showed me the problem but I forget what it was.

 

[banger]

I fancy one so I had a look at one yesterday, very rough, what suprised me was the amount of wasted space, there is a long tunnel the full length of the cockpit that could be very useful if you could gain access from the cockpit, but it is only accessable from inside and it is narrow so you would have limited room and easily lose things in there. They are short on ballast apparently so most owners, like the one yesterday, put lead in the lockers under the bunks, 100lbs or so, I understand. There is a third berth under the cockpit seating that is again a tunnel and does not look very comfortable, I understand most people use it as storage , but again, easy to lose items out of reach. They are also expensive, or at least the asking price is. The one I looked at was the gaff/gunter variant , and the spars looked very big and heavy for a shallow draft 22 footer, but she was not rigged so maybe I am wrong. I think I would prefer the cat rigged version if I get serious.

 

[Seajet]

banger,

I haven't been aboard a Liberty / Minstrel so don't know how much of a 'tunnel' these bits are, but I adapted the cabin step on my Anderson 22 to get access under the cockpit ( some A22's have a flexible water tank there but mines' always been to starboard ) - it gives a great place to stow the inflatable dinghy & sails, if the dinghy is in use I just leave the drawstring of the sailbags towards the cabin.

Quite unusual and very useful being able to stow a decent dinghy out of the way.

Haven't lost anything there yet, though I have considered using it as a 'brig' for idiot crew once or twice !

 

[dylanwinter]

one thing that bothers me

As you may know I seldom sing the praises of the slug

but there are vtwo things it does really well.

It motors brilliantly - which is really useful for what I do

It also sails well on all points of sail in two feet of water

can the Hunter hull do the same thing

I once owned an e boat

it was almost impossible to manage unless the plate was at least half down

slipped sideways like a goodun

adding ballast I can live with. I tend to sail heavy with food and tools down low

I can always do with carrying a bigger anchor down low

all good balast.

Deep lockers are good

so I want to know how it would behave on wells bar and sailing in thin water

I am thinking in this direction becauswe I am frit about the sort of bills a Centaur could cost me

at least with this I am only a van rental and a tank of diesel away from bringing the costs of KTL down to zero.

Of course the other thing I could do is to buy a trailer for the slug.

A 1.5 tonne flatbed would do it

But the slug spent this winter sitting on a mooring in wells and it was petrol costs and work that kept me away from it so I would have been better too have brought it home

I have towed big boats around so I know what I would be getting into

But I have lost confidence in the beast not to throw another wobbly

In the Hunter I can buy another outboard and I am back on the road

Petrol will cost more than diesel and charging batteries is going to a nightmare

I also really like not having to mess with a dinghy

Dylan

 

[SP2]

Hi Dylan,

We had a Minstrel for a couple of years and really miss her. She was lovely to sail and pointed well for a gunter rig and the lifting keel meant plenty of fun in dicing with the banks on the Medway.

We liked the size of the cockpit which is larger than that we had on the Westerly Tiger that succeeded her for us. The accommodation was fine for 2 of us although berths were a little narrow but then what do you expect! Separate loo is large and good for wet locker storage, too.

We had a new 6HP 4 Stroke on her which was fine although the guy who bought from us replaced this with a 10 hp 2 stroke.

Great thing is the ability to sit on the sand which you do with The Slug.

Okay you can get a Centaur for similar money which will have more accommodation and sail okay but she will not be as pretty as the Minstrel. Even sitting amongst the large yachts and mobos in Chatham Marina our Minstrel always had admiring looks and people stopped to chat about her.

She was easy to trail and the spars were quite easy to handle although they look heavy. I always managed to rig her on my own.

We did do a full refit - SWMBO did new upholstery and I did new teak trim, new electrics and replaced the Houdini hatch with the Gebo which was a good move and kept the cabin completely dry.

Good owners association which I still belong to.

Gets an A* rating from me!

 

[dylanwinter]

thanks mike

Hi Dylan,

We had a Minstrel for a couple of years and really miss her. She was lovely to sail and pointed well for a gunter rig and the lifting keel meant plenty of fun in dicing with the banks on the Medway.

We liked the size of the cockpit which is larger than that we had on the Westerly Tiger that succeeded her for us. The accommodation was fine for 2 of us although berths were a little narrow but then what do you expect! Separate loo is large and good for wet locker storage, too.

We had a new 6HP 4 Stroke on her which was fine although the guy who bought from us replaced this with a 10 hp 2 stroke.

Great thing is the ability to sit on the sand which you do with The Slug.

Okay you can get a Centaur for similar money which will have more accommodation and sail okay but she will not be as pretty as the Minstrel. Even sitting amongst the large yachts and mobos in Chatham Marina our Minstrel always had admiring looks and people stopped to chat about her.

She was easy to trail and the spars were quite easy to handle although they look heavy. I always managed to rig her on my own.

We did do a full refit - SWMBO did new upholstery and I did new teak trim, new electrics and replaced the Houdini hatch with the Gebo which was a good move and kept the cabin completely dry.

Good owners association which I still belong to.

Gets an A* rating from me!

that is wonderful

first hand experience is great
couple of questions if you don't mind

did you add extra ballast?

how did it motor with the keel up

does the rudder give enough bite in a seaway

Dylan

 

[SP2]

that is wonderful

first hand experience is great
couple of questions if you don't mind

did you add extra ballast?

how did it motor with the keel up

does the rudder give enough bite in a seaway

Dylan

No extra ballast added but we tended to have the lockers full! When she was light and the wind blew up suddenly (and we couldn't be bothered to reef) then she was really fun - reminded me of some of my early dinghy sailing. We never felt unsafe in her.

She motored very well with the keel up - with 6HP she made her hull speed easily and she was directionally stable.

Never had a problem with the rudder in a seaway - the helm seemed well balanced and she handled really well.

Heck - the more I remember her the more I wonder why we aren't looking for one ourselves!

 

[ditchcrawler]

I had a Minstrel which we sailed out of the Blackwater up and down the East Coast for 4 seasons.It was a great boat(my first big to me boat).It had an old engine when I bought it and I bought a Honda 5 which was favoured by many owners.If it is dead calm the engine exhaust can blow back up the well.I had it out in f5/6 a couple of times and it coped OK.I fitted slab reefing back to the cockpit by screwing blocks to the boom.It will go to windward OK with the plate up as it has small twin keels.Obviously as it gets windier it makes more leeway.I always used 2 people when rigging but you can fit a block and tackle to the forestay and lower the mast into the crutches.I found the tunnel handy for storage and I had 2 110a batteries in battery boxes and used to take them home for charging now and again.The loo is huge and I had a porta potti.I bought one with the purpose made trolley/trailer system which is very easy to use.The boat sits in a wheeled trolley which is hauled up onto the trailer so the trailer never goes into the water.My centre plate uphaul(rope and wire)was through the bulkhead into the cockpit and to a vertical winch at the side of the companionway.I used a lorry Hiab at the factory to lift it up and clean and antifoul the plate.Took 15 mins.I sailed often with other Minstrel/Libertys at Association meetings.The Minstrel is slightly faster to windward but the Liberty is faster downwind when is has its sails goosewinged.(not right term but one each side).I then got a small cruising chute and we had fun with that.We had more fun with that boat when the kids were younger than any other of my boats.Now I have a fin keeler and we do North Sea etc.As you see by my name we did a lot of shallow water sailing in the rivers of the East Coast.My Minstrel is still here in Woodbridge at the Tidemill Marina.I towed it with a Ford Scorpio but it was the 2.9l auto so it was no trouble.There is also one at Bradwell owned by a friend who used to write in Sailing Today(wash my mouth out) Good luck whatever you do.I enjoy your contributions by the way.

 

[dylanwinter]

that is brilliant

I had a Minstrel which we sailed out of the Blackwater up and down the East Coast for 4 seasons.It was a great boat(my first big to me boat).It had an old engine when I bought it and I bought a Honda 5 which was favoured by many owners.If it is dead calm the engine exhaust can blow back up the well.I had it out in f5/6 a couple of times and it coped OK.I fitted slab reefing back to the cockpit by screwing blocks to the boom.It will go to windward OK with the plate up as it has small twin keels.Obviously as it gets windier it makes more leeway.I always used 2 people when rigging but you can fit a block and tackle to the forestay and lower the mast into the crutches.I found the tunnel handy for storage and I had 2 110a batteries in battery boxes and used to take them home for charging now and again.The loo is huge and I had a porta potti.I bought one with the purpose made trolley/trailer system which is very easy to use.The boat sits in a wheeled trolley which is hauled up onto the trailer so the trailer never goes into the water.My centre plate uphaul(rope and wire)was through the bulkhead into the cockpit and to a vertical winch at the side of the companionway.I used a lorry Hiab at the factory to lift it up and clean and antifoul the plate.Took 15 mins.I sailed often with other Minstrel/Libertys at Association meetings.The Minstrel is slightly faster to windward but the Liberty is faster downwind when is has its sails goosewinged.(not right term but one each side).I then got a small cruising chute and we had fun with that.We had more fun with that boat when the kids were younger than any other of my boats.Now I have a fin keeler and we do North Sea etc.As you see by my name we did a lot of shallow water sailing in the rivers of the East Coast.My Minstrel is still here in Woodbridge at the Tidemill Marina.I towed it with a Ford Scorpio but it was the 2.9l auto so it was no trouble.There is also one at Bradwell owned by a friend who used to write in Sailing Today(wash my mouth out) Good luck whatever you do.I enjoy your contributions by the way.

okay steady on chaps - the prices will rise

all good news I think

but I would like some-one to come on here and bad mouth the boat

what about the plate mechanism

anything weird there

you will be pleased to know that the films about the orwell, stour and backwaters are going up for freemans on youtube

but I should add that they look better when downloaded from my website

and even better if you can get them onto your telly

D

 

[SP2]

I'm dropping broad hints about the DVDs for my birthday - better than socks any day.

The plate mechanism has been known to get stuck when sitting in the mud but we had a mud berth in the Swale for a year and I can't say we had this problem. The plate comes up easily with the fitted winch and gravity takes the going down...

But as you say, this is a public forum so I can confirm that they are rubbish and no one should ever buy one.

 

[Tranona]

The Liberty has been reviewed a couple of times as a used boat by PBO - always very favourably. The last time was Geoff Hales boat which he kept up the Wareham River. You can get the back copies from your friends at PBO.

Outboard is in a well but is said to work OK, but don't know if you can get the newer 4 strokes in.

Used to see the boat regularly in the harbour - splendid sight with its tan sails. Should blend in nicely with your preferred environments.

 

[SP2]

Outboard is in a well but is said to work OK, but don't know if you can get the newer 4 strokes in.

We had a 2009 6HP Tohatsu 4 stroke on ours - fitted without problems.

 

[Seajet]

Dylan,

if you're looking for negative comments, I'd think there has to be a question mark over these boats standing up to their canvas, bearing in mind your journeys' next legs will be into more serious stuff, I'd think involving a lot more relatively offshore sailing in strong tidal waters than ditch crawling, compared to that up to now.

We know how much use internal ballast is - and how it needs to be very secure or else ! - so exactly how heavy is that plate ?

I might be tempted to fit fresh water tanks under the side decks, if the interior should allow it, but that's hardly ideal and takes up space...

 

[JimC]

Dylan,
I don't know much about Libertys or Minstrels but I have a high opinion of Hunter boats in general having owned two and being on close terms with several others at my sailing club where they are well thought of. There is an active owners' association for the Liberty and Minstrel here http://www.hlmoa.org.uk/ . Contradicting what has been suggested about the unsuitability of the boats for the open sea, a Hunter Liberty was sailed across the Atlantic some years ago, she was called the Golden Wind and was modified to carry junk rig on her two masts. This link may also be of interest to you: http://bunning.co.uk/assets/commentaries/Peridot is bought.htm

 

[jellylegs]

I love my Centaur. PM me, I will let you have a look, very close by....

 

[dylanwinter]

Centaur

I love my Centaur. PM me, I will let you have a look, very close by....

I have not given up on the Centaur

I know that it would be the best boat for the job

It is just that there is no way that I can stop spending money on it

even just keeping one ashore or on a mooring is going to cost me money

the gear is big and getting under bridges is next to impossible

I could not have really used one to explore the Broads or the top of the Butley

and looking back through the films.....

running an old inboard diesel has been an extremely stressful business and has cost me lost me a massive amount of sailing time

If I have a four stroke outbioard in a well I can replace the whole engine unit for £1000

with a diesel a replacement engine is closer to five times that.

On the other hand.... if 3,000 westerly owners bought the DVDs.....

however..... no idea what the next year holds financially

going to keep the slug for at least this year

Dylan