Hunter Duette as a single handed club racer?

[CamR]

I have been crewing for a while and fancy something for myself to race at the local club.

The ever present issue for yacht owners seems to be the availability of crew. We have some boats that rarely race because they don't have crew !!

I was considering buying something like a sonatta ( relatively cheap to buy and maintain) but they do need three people to be competitive.

As an alternative I thought about something like the Hunter Duette which is supposed to be quite good to windward and has extra weight that negates the need for extra bodies to keep her upright

I can't find much information on how competitive they may be so I am reaching out on the forum for any experience or advice

Thanks in advance

CamR

 

[lw395]

It is some years since I've sailed a Duette.
As I recall, they do not go to windward too badly for a twin keel boat.
But they still like a bit of weight on the high side.
I think they have a fair sized genoa, so won't be the handiest thing to tack s/h.
I would think carefully about what sort of racing you envisage, e.g. mostly against other s/h boats or mixing it with fully crewed, where ? will there be plenty of space to keep out of trouble etc. Will you be able to use spinnaker and autopilot? Will the legs be long enough that a kite is worthwhile one-up? Will you have comparable boats to give you enjoyable racing, or just yot around at the back and hope your handicap works for you? It's all about the other boats and other people.

 

[CamR]

It is some years since I've sailed a Duette.
As I recall, they do not go to windward too badly for a twin keel boat.
But they still like a bit of weight on the high side.
I think they have a fair sized genoa, so won't be the handiest thing to tack s/h.
I would think carefully about what sort of racing you envisage, e.g. mostly against other s/h boats or mixing it with fully crewed, where ? will there be plenty of space to keep out of trouble etc. Will you be able to use spinnaker and autopilot? Will the legs be long enough that a kite is worthwhile one-up? Will you have comparable boats to give you enjoyable racing, or just yot around at the back and hope your handicap works for you? It's all about the other boats and other people.

All well made points. I will be the only one on my own and I hate being at the back with no one to compete against. There are a couple of Sonatas that race regularly and a few others, not sure what they are but are always competing against them

 

[Motor_Sailor]

The Duette is simply a bilge keel Sonta Mk2. I can't believe that there is much more weight in the keels or else it wouldn't float to its lines.

So I wouldn't discount a Sonata as for less money, you could get one with some racing deck gear and decent sails, albeit it in an older boat.

However, the mast is better stayed on the Duette and a roller headsail is a real boon singlehanded, which you're unlikely to get with a Sonata.

However there is a real limiting factor in either boats - Sonatas hang on to their genoas until dogs have long been blown from their chains. Even fully crewed, it never pays to change down to the No3, even a racing one with big leach and battens. So that leaves a very narrow wind window (up to 15 kts) where you have any hope (and then its a slim one) of being competitive.

Therefore it might be worth looking for a design that isn't so dependent on rail meat. Folkboats and H boats (and their ilk) are the traditional choices. ( Squib? Old Dragon?)

 

[Kukri]

Last month I bought an old Squib for my son as a post - GCSE present and I have been borrowing her and having a great deal of fun in her. Last Saturday we were happily tramping past much bigger boats which were well reefed down but were still squirrelly, whereas the little Squib just got her lee rail awash and accelerated in a straight line. With a decent suit of sails (£1,200?) and some toe straps and decent sail controls we would have done even better. But the point of the story is that we had no toe straps..

So a Squib or a Hunter Europa (same animal, with lid) would be a contender, I think (and even cheaper!)

 

[lw395]

There is good racing to be had in Squibs, but you are getting down to the size and type of boat that might not be eligible for the races in question.
Careful thought about how the boat will fit into the racing you want to do is required.
Based near Portsmouth, if I bought a Squib, it would be to race with their fleet at the Royal Vic.
If I was buying a small cruiser racer, I'd be wanting to be eligible for some of the 2-handed series and the round the island.
For club racing I'd want to go with the fleet, if most of the opposition are asymmetric sportsboats, not much fun having a Folkboat. Or v/v come to that.

 

[Kukri]

True but the OP wants to race round the cans singlehanded. An asymmetric sportsboat would not be ideal for that, nor would a Sonata.

 

[lw395]

The only thing that's ideal for s/h round the cans is a singlehander like a Laser, Phantom, Solo etc.
Everything else is going to be a compromise.

 

[lpdsn]

I have been crewing for a while and fancy something for myself to race at the local club.

The ever present issue for yacht owners seems to be the availability of crew. We have some boats that rarely race because they don't have crew !!

I was considering buying something like a sonatta ( relatively cheap to buy and maintain) but they do need three people to be competitive.

As an alternative I thought about something like the Hunter Duette which is supposed to be quite good to windward and has extra weight that negates the need for extra bodies to keep her upright

I can't find much information on how competitive they may be so I am reaching out on the forum for any experience or advice

Thanks in advance

CamR

One problem you're going to have is that the RRS require you to manouvre promptly in a seamanlike manner. It's not a particularly high standard for a fully crewed boat but if you start entering races for fully crewed boats then, as I understand it, no allowance is made for you being light-handed or single-handed.

So quite likely in the rough and tumble of starts or mark roundings you're going to struggle to manouvre well enough. Even if you don't end up in collisions and the others in the club are too reticent to protest you are still going to end up irritating people.

Better to get a dinghy you can sail on your own or to crew for a owner you get on well with.

 

[Foolish Muse]

From many years of experience racing singlehanded against crewed boats (more than 300 races) I can tell you that, by a huge margin, the biggest obstacle you will face to winning is leeward drift because you have no weight on the rail. (This is even after you have learned to do all of the sailing maneuvers properly) Once the wind gets up above 10, your drift will leave you at the back of the pack every time. You can imagine drifting 100 or 200 yards to leeward for a 1/2 mile upwind leg. This drift will even hit you on the starting line, where you will drift down onto the boat below you, so you end up pinching until they have passed you by and you can tack. So what you want to do is find a boat that will not depend on weight on the rail so much, and will allow you to sail as high as the crewed boats. And even then, you will want to follow the race starting instructions in my singlehanded tips book. Have fun.

 

[Kukri]

From many years of experience racing singlehanded against crewed boats (more than 300 races) I can tell you that, by a huge margin, the biggest obstacle you will face to winning is leeward drift because you have no weight on the rail. (This is even after you have learned to do all of the sailing maneuvers properly) Once the wind gets up above 10, your drift will leave you at the back of the pack every time. You can imagine drifting 100 or 200 yards to leeward for a 1/2 mile upwind leg. This drift will even hit you on the starting line, where you will drift down onto the boat below you, so you end up pinching until they have passed you by and you can tack. So what you want to do is find a boat that will not depend on weight on the rail so much, and will allow you to sail as high as the crewed boats. And even then, you will want to follow the race starting instructions in my singlehanded tips book. Have fun.

Absolutely right, of course.

A Six Metre?

These people seem to be racing Hunter Europas:

 

[markhomer]

Js9000 , always fancied one myself

 

[CamR]

Js9000 , always fancied one myself

Nice, but probably a bit much for me on my own

 

[Kukri]

In Club round the cans racing, it seldom pays to have the "scratch" boat, even if you can sail her to her limits.

 

[Foolish Muse]

One point. For our club beer-can racing (but not trophy races or regattas) I was given a 13 second per mile adjustment to my handicap rating for singlehanding. Everyone was happy with that.

 

[Kukri]

One point. For our club beer-can racing (but not trophy races or regattas) I was given a 13 second per mile adjustment to my handicap rating for singlehanding. Everyone was happy with that.

Good point.

 

[langstonelayabout]

One problem you're going to have is that the RRS require you to manouvre promptly in a seamanlike manner. It's not a particularly high standard for a fully crewed boat but if you start entering races for fully crewed boats then, as I understand it, no allowance is made for you being light-handed or single-handed.

So quite likely in the rough and tumble of starts or mark roundings you're going to struggle to manouvre well enough. Even if you don't end up in collisions and the others in the club are too reticent to protest you are still going to end up irritating people.

Better to get a dinghy you can sail on your own or to crew for a owner you get on well with.

+1

I was always happy to sail my E-Boat singlehanded or two up, but three on the rail she went faster. Four on the rail, faster still. All on the same rating. Think of your crew weight on the rail being the force applied to squeeze a bar of soap out a wet hand. The harder you squeeze, the faster it will go...

So please, if you want to race (and competitively) get a single handed boat or a regular crew. JOG racing does allow for 2-handed races but this isn't your local club racing.

 

[Praxinoscope]

This isn’t an easy choice, s/h racing against crewed boats is never easy, especially downwind when you really need to fly a kite, and even worse when you are up against Sonatas or similar, however it is possible, at the times my crew weren’t available I used to race around the cans s/h in my Invicta 26, didn’t bother with the kite and on a couple of occasions actually won, on longer races I with the aid of the Autohelm I did use the kite, never won but neither did I come in last.
I haven’t tried a s/h racing yet with my new boat (Sadler 25) yet, but from the way she feels I think if I have to go s/h I won’t
be coming in last.
One boat which I have had to really fight hard against is the Achilles 24 both crewed and single handed.

 

[Seajet]

If not too late for an oldish thread, what you need chum is an Anderson 22; goes better than a Duette, especially in a breeze, handles like a dream and doesn't require bods on the side.

Big sister of the Squib and Europa, usually lift keel ( so cheap moorings & exploring possible too ) but there is one of two special fin keelers made, she did very well in Clyde racing but now needs quite a bit of TLC - going remarkably cheap but based in Scotland.

My website is down at the moment due to malevant attack, but I can give any info' you like - if just for club racing a Mk1 keelcase would suit well, and put the willies up a few people.