Hull Type: Bilge/Twin Vs Fin

[tgalea]

Hi all,

Would appreciate any help, suggestions or comments regarding my problem.

I am in the process of buying my first sailing boat after a number of years with motor boats and have located a small 23 footer which quite frankly comes at the starter price I had in mind. The boat is in quite a good condition however some local sailing enthusiasts warned me that since this boat has a Twin keel bilge hull it will prove to be slow and uncomfortable to sail and many other negatives.

Whilst admitting i have no experience in this field i still tend to insist that these bilge keel and twin keel hulls must sail after all; that's why they were built in the first place.

Please help !!

Regards & Happy New Year to all.

Tyrone Galea.

 

[yoda]

I spent 2 years sailing foxterriers both fin and bilge keel and boat for boat found little difference in them. I would expect the other considerations of mooring, ease of drying out etc would have more bearing than sailing performance. What class of boat did you have in mind?

 

[tonyleigh]

This is a fundamental issue and you are wise to be thinking it through. The first question is "Where will I usually sail and moor?" The second question is "What type of sailing am I hoping to do and where do I want to sail to?" Fin has better racing performance but bilge (especially that size) permits a far greater range of cruising anchorages. That size of bilge keeler also covers a broad range of "sailability". A huge fraternity of bilge keeler sailors who each clock up many hundreds of miles each year will chuckle at your local enthusiasts warnings. However, they may have substance if you plan largely to race round the cans out of a deep water marina.
Post the class of your intended, the type of usage you envisage, your mooring area and intended sailing area and I'll guarantee this board will give you much food for thought. Happy New Year to you too.

 

[tonyleigh]

Ah! Malta???

Tyrone - apologies - something just made me check your profile. I am a committed bilge keeler BUT assuming you are sailing a 23 footer out of Malta I would certainly think more towards fin or drop keel. Sure others with more recent experience in that area will proffer better reasoned advice - my thinking was of tidal NW Europe!

 

[Bergman]

My thoughts for what they are worth.

A bilge keeler has the advantages of shallower draft and the ability to dry out on level(ish) ground.

A fin keel will sail better particularly close to the wind.

Into a choppy sea I have found bilge keelers tend to "slam" coming off of a wave, and not necessarily a big wave. Its a bit alarming but I have not heard of serious damage being done.

In terms of stability a fin keeler will have a greater righting moment for a given ballast weight, but such boats as the Hunters achieve very high levels of stability with twin keels so it really is a question for the individual boat.

Broadly speaking if you are on a drying mooring and sail in shallow water areas then a bilge keeler becomes more attractive. If on a deep water berth and sailing in deep water areas then overall a fin keel will give better performance.

Hope that helps a little, no doubt others will disagree with my opinons but thats the way it goes

Happy New Year

 

[billmacfarlane]

I've owned both for longish periods of time and here's a couple of points:
Someone has already mentioned the slamming of the weather bilge keel. It's usually most apparent while going to windward. Some models are worse then others for it. I had a Sadler 29 and I found it very irritating. Sailing a fin keel was a revelation after it.
If you sail the Med then you don't have to worry about keeping a bilge keeler on a drying mooring. Bear in mind that you'll have more of a problem getting afloat if you run aground with a bilge keeler. You can't heel the boat to get off.
You'll make less leeway in light airs in a fin keeler. Bilge keelers like to be sailed more upright than fin keelers.

 

[PuffTheMagicDragon]

Hi Tyrone
Some of the answers posted do not apply to Malta. My present boat has bilge keels (Westerly Centaur) while my previous one had twin keels (Vivacity). IMHO, if you are only interested in cruising then the sailing ability difference will not be much. The Vivacity - after I installed a genoa - went 'like a bomb' , i.e. 5.5 - 6kts in a force 4. I went to the Centaur because I needed more room inside.
The advantage of shallow(er) draught is that you have a wider range of mooring sites. I was deep inside Marsascala with 6 feet of water and a Gregale blowing straight in. A fin keeler would have bottomed out for each wave.
Regarding slamming, yes I did notice some slamming right under the cockpit last August but this was in a Force 6 - 7 just south of Capo Passero. The effect was more psychological than anything else and is caused by the aft sections being rather flattish.
The major convenience is OUT of the water. The boats sit comfortably on their keels with no need for shoring up. In the case of the Vivacity I had built myself a trailer and the boat could be hauled behind a Land Rover to my garage for winter storage without the need of a crane. I think that you might find it possible to arrange something similar for your 23 footer.
Best of luck. If you need more information, feel free to contact me.


Wally

 

[tgalea]

Re: Ah! Malta???

Hi Tony,

Thanks for your email and help. This is in fact the problem i am encountering.. what is it really about the area i would be sailing in that poses this problem of bilge keel ? Is it the currents, or our prevailing winds.. or something to this tune ?

Thanks.
Tyrone

 

[tgalea]

Thanks for the info.

Much appreciated ! Will let you know about my decison! Hoping it is the right one i mean!!!

Cheers.
Tyrone.

 

[tgalea]

Hi Wally,

Thanks for your reply. Was great to hear something for a fellow maltese since you can understand better the area i would want to sail in.

Basically, as i said this will by my first sailing boat and the fact that it does have a trailer would be quite benefitial to me since as you know it is quite expensive to keep the boat throughout the winter months at Manoel Island Yacht Yard; especially when you consider that it is quite small and i would end up paying quite a substantial yearly fee to keep it if it did not have a trailer.

The boat is quite similar in size and class to the Vivacity you mentioned. I presume you would know this boat; name is "OZOG" presently lying on a trailer in Gozo by the Marina office side. Unfortunately the only information the owner can give me is that it is an oldish British boat and we don't really know that model name.

If you happen to know the boat i would really appreciate your views and comments to the particular model. I have no idea of it's characteristics or if it is a good starter boat or not.

Thanks & All the best for the new year to you and your family.

Tyrone.

 

[PuffTheMagicDragon]

Although I do not personally know the boat I believe that it used to belong to Rupert Brooke, the owner of Gozo Glass. In fact, the name is Gozo spelt backwards. His phone number used to be 561974 and his eMail address is (or was?) gozoglass@digigate.net
You might want to speak to him directly while you are in Gozo. If for nothing else, his production of blown glassware is fascinating to watch.
I am pretty sure that Rupert would provide more details. Feel free to mention me if you think that it might be useful (although I have not met him for several years). I do know that he used to do quite a lot of sailing in the Gozo channel area, which gives some interesting situations, especially when the wind is a fresh South-Westerly.
Good Luck!

Wally