Hugo Boss Capsizes
- Thread starter Phoenix of Hamble
- Start date
FullCircle
Well-Known Member
In these days of excellent CAE modelling, why do the design teams not recognise the failure modes correctly? A clever design would be to have a sacrifical failure mode for stress management that would have a backup of operational fix which would work at an emergency level to reach next port.
It strikes me that failure and fatigue testing must be insufficient, taking into account build manufacturing process tolerances. I recognise the balance between weight saving for light airs work against ultimate performance for heavy airs, but, as always said - To win, first you have to finish!
I hope all is well and manages to get to port OK.
PS why did they ask the Japanese entrant behind to assist when Mike Golding was supposedly only a mile aweay?
It strikes me that failure and fatigue testing must be insufficient, taking into account build manufacturing process tolerances. I recognise the balance between weight saving for light airs work against ultimate performance for heavy airs, but, as always said - To win, first you have to finish!
I hope all is well and manages to get to port OK.
PS why did they ask the Japanese entrant behind to assist when Mike Golding was supposedly only a mile aweay?
fireball
Well-Known Member
Because
a) by the time they were alerted he was a lot further in front
b) the boat isn't disabled - so he probably won't need rescuing
but I agree with the modelling ... we're always hearing about these keels having failures - they should be well over engineered and have a backup failsafe ...
Perhaps they thought they were and did ... !! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
a) by the time they were alerted he was a lot further in front
b) the boat isn't disabled - so he probably won't need rescuing
but I agree with the modelling ... we're always hearing about these keels having failures - they should be well over engineered and have a backup failsafe ...
Perhaps they thought they were and did ... !! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
flaming
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
PS why did they ask the Japanese entrant behind to assist when Mike Golding was supposedly only a mile aweay?
[/ QUOTE ]
By the time he'd checked everything and sent out a distress call I doubt Golding was a mere mile away! If that took an hour Golding was probably 20 miles downwind.
PS why did they ask the Japanese entrant behind to assist when Mike Golding was supposedly only a mile aweay?
[/ QUOTE ]
By the time he'd checked everything and sent out a distress call I doubt Golding was a mere mile away! If that took an hour Golding was probably 20 miles downwind.
doris
Well-Known Member
Golding\'s 1 mile
The distances they talk about are not relative to each other but relative to the race leader. Golding was a long way further south. Anyway if you look at some of Golding's dispatches you will see that there is some serious discussion going on about the way the distances are calculated. The management of this race do not seem to have got things particularly well sorted out compared to the last Vendee, either on the website or the data.
The distances they talk about are not relative to each other but relative to the race leader. Golding was a long way further south. Anyway if you look at some of Golding's dispatches you will see that there is some serious discussion going on about the way the distances are calculated. The management of this race do not seem to have got things particularly well sorted out compared to the last Vendee, either on the website or the data.
Phoenix of Hamble
Well-Known Member
Re: Golding\'s 1 mile
Golding has just turned back to help rescue Alex Thompson... he's 80nm away
Golding has just turned back to help rescue Alex Thompson... he's 80nm away
Phoenix of Hamble
Well-Known Member
Re: Golding\'s 1 mile
Doesn't sound like its going to be a lot of fun... 30kt headwinds and large seas on a floating soapdish...
Still... glad that the spirit of comradeship still exists out there....
Doesn't sound like its going to be a lot of fun... 30kt headwinds and large seas on a floating soapdish...
Still... glad that the spirit of comradeship still exists out there....
DeeGee
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
A clever design would be to have a sacrifical failure mode...
[/ QUOTE ] I couldn't agree more. Like a sort of 'mechanical fuse', also known as 'the weakest link' design methodology. Imagine going below and finding you've got to waste some time with a spanner and an item from the spares.
As Thompson describes it, I would be VERY surprised if the boat will ever get to shore again in any number of pieces, it is more likely to be dumped.
A clever design would be to have a sacrifical failure mode...
[/ QUOTE ] I couldn't agree more. Like a sort of 'mechanical fuse', also known as 'the weakest link' design methodology. Imagine going below and finding you've got to waste some time with a spanner and an item from the spares.
As Thompson describes it, I would be VERY surprised if the boat will ever get to shore again in any number of pieces, it is more likely to be dumped.
Grehan
Well-Known Member
jonathankent
Well-Known Member
I was told that when it comes to racing yachts...... if it brakes you didn't quite build it strong enough, if it doesn't brake you have built it too strong (i.e. too heavy and lost speed).... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
bluewaterP72
Active Member
Re: Golding\'s 1 mile
[ QUOTE ]
Doesn't sound like its going to be a lot of fun... 30kt headwinds and large seas on a floating soapdish...
Still... glad that the spirit of comradeship still exists out there....
[/ QUOTE ]
I 'm remembering Pete Goss rescuing Ralph Dinelli - was impressive to read about the rescue in his book.
This situation now seems to be similar. No easy job.
[ QUOTE ]
Doesn't sound like its going to be a lot of fun... 30kt headwinds and large seas on a floating soapdish...
Still... glad that the spirit of comradeship still exists out there....
[/ QUOTE ]
I 'm remembering Pete Goss rescuing Ralph Dinelli - was impressive to read about the rescue in his book.
This situation now seems to be similar. No easy job.
jonathankent
Well-Known Member
I've just read the report..... if the boat only went over on its side til the spreaders were in the water.... can that really be classed as a capsize? I thought it would have to go right the way over to be a capsize?
Phoenix of Hamble
Well-Known Member
humhh.... bet it bloody well felt like a capsize!!!!! (ever had the spreaders in the water?... its pretty scary I can tell you!)
Now read he has 40kts on the nose... as Bluewater said... reminiscent of Pete Goss and Dinelli.....
Hope he gets there before dark, and that the transfer is a safe one..
Now read he has 40kts on the nose... as Bluewater said... reminiscent of Pete Goss and Dinelli.....
Hope he gets there before dark, and that the transfer is a safe one..
jonathankent
Well-Known Member
Nope... never got the spreaders anywhere near that close... thank god!
I suppose I was just being a bit picky... you see it no end of times, the press hyping things up a bit. I thought that someone might know the definite meaning to a capsize.
I suppose I was just being a bit picky... you see it no end of times, the press hyping things up a bit. I thought that someone might know the definite meaning to a capsize.
Dipper
Well-Known Member
Re: Golding\'s 1 mile
[ QUOTE ]
Still... glad that the spirit of comradeship still exists out there....
[/ QUOTE ]
There wasn't much comradeship between racing crews at the Cowes regatta in 1829.
After a collision between the yachts Lulworth and Louisa, the crews came to blows. During the fight the yachtsmen tried to dismast each other by slashing the rigging with cutlasses. Extract from This is Hampshire .net .
[ QUOTE ]
Still... glad that the spirit of comradeship still exists out there....
[/ QUOTE ]
There wasn't much comradeship between racing crews at the Cowes regatta in 1829.
After a collision between the yachts Lulworth and Louisa, the crews came to blows. During the fight the yachtsmen tried to dismast each other by slashing the rigging with cutlasses. Extract from This is Hampshire .net .
l'escargot
Well-Known Member
Re: Golding\'s 1 mile
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Still... glad that the spirit of comradeship still exists out there....
[/ QUOTE ]
There wasn't much comradeship between racing crews at the Cowes regatta in 1829.
After a collision between the yachts Lulworth and Louisa, the crews came to blows. During the fight the yachtsmen tried to dismast each other by slashing the rigging with cutlasses. Extract from This is Hampshire .net .
[/ QUOTE ]
I like this bit:
The owner of a 150-ton schooner armed with eight brass canons was so incensed when he learned he had been rejected for membership he dropped anchor off the Cowes' waterfront and threatened to fire on the Squadron if the person who black-balled him did not apologise.
After a period of tense negotiation he received an apology, honour was satisfied and he sailed away.
/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Still... glad that the spirit of comradeship still exists out there....
[/ QUOTE ]
There wasn't much comradeship between racing crews at the Cowes regatta in 1829.
After a collision between the yachts Lulworth and Louisa, the crews came to blows. During the fight the yachtsmen tried to dismast each other by slashing the rigging with cutlasses. Extract from This is Hampshire .net .
[/ QUOTE ]
I like this bit:
The owner of a 150-ton schooner armed with eight brass canons was so incensed when he learned he had been rejected for membership he dropped anchor off the Cowes' waterfront and threatened to fire on the Squadron if the person who black-balled him did not apologise.
After a period of tense negotiation he received an apology, honour was satisfied and he sailed away.
/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Phoenix of Hamble
Well-Known Member
Re: Golding\'s 1 mile
So times have changed in more ways than one.... no way they'd ever apologise nowadays... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
So times have changed in more ways than one.... no way they'd ever apologise nowadays... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
FullCircle
Well-Known Member
So he was rescued, which is terrific news.
What is not terrific news is that Mike Goldings engine installation was complete cack. Broken shear pins, broken gear linkages, jeez. It's not as if the engine can have thousnads of hours on it!
Another example where the installation design will have been poor. It is really unacceptable that these boats, allegedly the pinnacle of technology, can exhibit the most basic of faults, which *could* have led to Golding not being to pick up Thompson, potentially even more life threatening than it already was.
What is not terrific news is that Mike Goldings engine installation was complete cack. Broken shear pins, broken gear linkages, jeez. It's not as if the engine can have thousnads of hours on it!
Another example where the installation design will have been poor. It is really unacceptable that these boats, allegedly the pinnacle of technology, can exhibit the most basic of faults, which *could* have led to Golding not being to pick up Thompson, potentially even more life threatening than it already was.
ChrisE
Well-Known Member
Well done Mike Golding, showing the best of competitive spirit.
In no way am I suggesting that he should have done anything else, however, the poor chap must wonder if he killed a baby in an earlier life, this is not the first time he has been within grasp of winning when he has been buggered. Running aground, keel going tits up and now a rescue when fast closing on the leader.
In no way am I suggesting that he should have done anything else, however, the poor chap must wonder if he killed a baby in an earlier life, this is not the first time he has been within grasp of winning when he has been buggered. Running aground, keel going tits up and now a rescue when fast closing on the leader.
duncan
Well-Known Member
indeed - this will be an extremely interesting challenge to the race committee that could well have far reaching consequences on future competitor decisions..........not of course suggesting that anyone would even consider the implications to a mere race result where fellow human beings lives are at risk